Have you been wondering if becoming an Automation Service Provider™ is right for you? In this episode, Chris discusses the reasons you should… and shouldn’t. It may seem counterproductive to have a podcast on why you shouldn’t. However, becoming an ASP™ only works for certain types of industries and personality traits. Join Chris as he discusses both in an effort to provide a little more clarity and simplify the decision for you.
You’re listening to the All systems go podcast, the show that teaches you everything you need to know to put your business on autopilot. Learn how to deploy automated marketing and sale systems in your business the right way. With your host, the professor of automation himself and founder of automation bridge, Chris Davis.
Chris Davis 0:32
Welcome to the All systems go podcast. I’m your host, Chris L. Davis, the founder and chief automation Officer of automation bridge, where we focus on turning digital marketing professionals into automation service providers by teaching them marketing, and Sales Automation. If you’d like to become one or find out more, you can visit automationbridge.com/ASP. In this episode, I want to talk about why you should or shouldn’t become an automation service provider. I know it seems maybe a little kind of counterproductive to have a podcast on why you shouldn’t. And while I would love for everybody to be capable and willing. The fact of the matter is it only works for certain types of professionals and personality traits. And what I want to do is discuss both in this episode to provide a little more clarity. In my experience, I found that whenever you create a category, there’s always this self vetting that people go through like Oh, am I am I ready? Am I good enough is that for me. And I want to make it simple for you to make that decision. But before we get into it, if you’re new to the podcast, make sure you listen to this episode in its entirety. When you’re done, please make sure you subscribe and share. This one in particular is important because this is the core of why we exist at automation bridge is to create automation service providers. But I want you to listen before you hit that subscribe button before you leave that rating and review so you can do it in an educated fashion. If you are not new to the podcast, you just haven’t subscribed yet. What are you waiting for? Now is the time Come on join every Thursday, we release a new episode and I do not want you to miss at the time of recording this episode. The all systems podcast is free to subscribe to. And you can access this show in all of your main podcasting apps like Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, you can even subscribe on YouTube, right? So your five star ratings and reviews are greatly appreciated. And what I want to do is, I really want to piggyback off of some recent, or I should say some of my latter episodes where I mentioned in our and I’ll list them them shortly. But let me just start out by saying automation isn’t for everyone. And when I say isn’t for everyone, everyone can benefit from automation. But not everybody can do automation, okay, there are some people that make a perfect fit for it. And others who quite honestly should stay away from it in it, my job has really become to be to really vet more than except the right because it’s one of those things where you just don’t want to be left out every a, I want to know learn how to automate, hey, I want to do this. And it’s aspirational. It’s it’s good to have that feeling. But sometimes we just need to help people get back to reality. And do what I like to say is stay in your lane, right stay in the lane that allows you to operate at the highest speed possible with the least harm to no harm really done right. And since identifying the people who should embrace it can be fairly challenging at times, I wanted to provide some real life examples of the types of people in businesses that have gone through the program, and why it’s been a good fit. Because it’s again, I don’t want you to get caught in your head and disqualify yourself erroneously qualify yourself. Listen, you’ll find that we have all of the resources needed to help you make that decision. But the bigger thing is small businesses are just in queue. They’re waiting. They are in need of people who understand how, how can I take my marketing and automate it? I cannot take my sales and automated, they are ready. yet they’re not met with professionals in the marketplace ready to take them to that next level with automation. All right, so as I mentioned some quick past episodes I have touched on this in a variety of ways this one is going to be a little different. But if you want some backdrop in Episode Seven
Chris Davis 5:00
I talked about the difference between digital marketing and marketing automation. And what I what I noted was that there are some people who are great digital marketers, but aren’t going to do as well as a marketing automation professional. Because it’s a different type of brain digital marketing deals with the landing pages, sales pages, checkout pages, emails, digital marketing is the front end of marketing. It’s what a contact or a user or a person experiences, it’s what they engage with, where automation is the back end, it’s the back end operations controlling what you engage with. So some people just like to control that front end of marketing. They don’t care about the back end operations of marketing, those who have the ability to go to the back end. That’s where the automation takes place. Right? So that’s one differentiator right there. Do you want to stay front end Do you want to go back in Do you want to go full stack marketing, if so, you that’s a good indicator, marketing, becoming an automation service provider, maybe the next step. Then in Episode 29, I talked about what is an automation service provider. So I defined it there, if you if you want to know that definition, just just go listen to that episode in its entirety. The long and short of it is an automation service provider is a marketing PR, digital marketing professional that has decided, hey, I want to provide the service of automation, I even want to add it to my existing business, or this is what I want to do for a living. Okay, that is an automation service provider. They navigate between marketing strategy and marketing technology, and make sure the two are perfectly aligned in the systems that they build. And Episode 30, I talked about the single quality of a great automation service provider, I’m not going to give you that single quality, because I want you to go listen to it. Okay, in Episode 27, I talked about this skill of assessing technology, which you cannot exist in the space of automation, marketing automation. without the ability of assessing technology, you can’t access technology, unless you are constantly exposed to all of the technology, the pros and the cons, the use cases. This is why the automation bridge community exists. So that we can stay in the know with all of the technology, because every business has a stack specific to how they want to operate. And if we’re pigeon holed or just tied to one particular tool, or one way of doing things, we robbed the market of what they really need. All right, all of those episodes will provide insight on what an automation service provider is, and give you a good understanding, if you should even consider being one, which is the point again, of this episode. And let me just get into the meat of it in. What I’m going to do first is break down the specific industries and people in them that make for great automation service providers. And this is in no particular order. And I’ve again, I’m doing this by experience. I have countless people who have gone through my program, some have excelled, some have not. And I have made note of each type of person, their industry in their, in their personality type. All right. So let’s start with industries that I’ve seen work really well in. And I’ll tell you why. virtual assistants again, in no particular order, I’m starting with virtual assistants, that does not mean that they’re the greatest right? But why are virtual assistants, good candidates because they By default, the definition of an assistant is to assist. Right. And a lot of time, I mean things have really changed for virtual assistants that used to be very much admin based. But now you’ve got a variety, even in virtual assistants, there’s now categories, there’s like a virtual marketing assistant, a virtual this assistant, you know, like they, they’re carving out even more categories within it. But a virtual assistant is somebody who essentially is assisting a business in in a variety of ways in multiple areas in their business. And often times it is with marketing. And what I found is that I’ll be working with certain companies, and they’ll introduce me to their VA and I’ll have to say like wait a minute, your VA is sharp, like this is above average here, right? Like you have somebody that can really go to the next level. So not every virtual assistant will get into some of the personality traits. But virtual assistants do they’re good candidates. I did not say they’re they by default. Because you’re a virtual assistant, you should become an automation service provider. I believe adding the adding the skill of automation as a virtual assistant will immediately increase your value and allow you To be able to charge more, excuse me. And the reason why I say this is because I’ve also engaged with a variety of virtual assistant agencies that have tiers like tier one, virtual assistant, tier two, tier three, and the top tier, what is the most common factor is automation. You know, like tier two will be like, they’ll build out landing pages and send out emails, that’s digital marketing. But tier three is like they’ll they’ll do your Active Campaign, your HubSpot, your keep your ontraport, it goes into marketing automation. They know this, all the virtual assistants listening, they know this, right? So extreme value second, online business managers. Now, this is probably more optional than virtual assistants, because an online business manner manager doesn’t necessarily have to work in the process more so than managing the process and defining the process. But what you’ll what you’ll find is a gym, you’ll find a gym every now and then, of that online business manager that can do automation. And I have to say, I’ve been privileged and blessed to find one. And I tell you what, I’m not trying to dictate or determine the definition of an online business manager. But your life is much easier. When you’ve got an online business manager that can handle the technical understanding strategy and technology that goes into into automation. Now, should they become an automation service provider? Maybe it depends on that online business manager, they may just want to stay at the top level process. And maybe they just know enough to be dangerous. But if they can, if there is a if there, if you see potential there where they’re just like, Look, I can build out this system. And then and then I can go find the people to run it to listen, you are you’re in the game. Okay. Now, the bread and butter Come on digital marketers, this is this is like, the no brainer, right? So you would think so you would think it’s not? Because what digital marketers think, let me be honest here, okay. Smart podcast, no filter. A lot of digital marketers are full of themselves. They think they’re greater than what they really are. Just there’s no other way to say it. They think that because they can build a landing page or duplicate a click funnel sales funnel, or build something in Lee pages or groovy funnels, you name the funnel building kartra. They feel like they’ve arrived. They feel like that’s it and don’t let it make some money. They’re like, Oh, yeah, this is what you do. And then they just go online and just do the same thing over and over and over again. Is there anything wrong with that? No, there’s nothing wrong with that, except it’s going to it’s going to come to a point where your digital marketing efforts don’t scale. Because you either need more data, or you need more automation. And automation helps you get more data. So all roads lead to automation when it comes time to scale. So this is why you hear me say we teach digital marketers, how to
Chris Davis 13:11
do Marketing and Sales Automation, we teach that to them. Because digital marketing just requires the basic an email autoresponder, some integration, you’ve got a sales funnel that can make money. And just focus on optimizing conversion rates, copy things of that matter. Front End, optimization is a thing. Front End, conversion is an entire profession. My thing is, understand your limitations. Understand as a digital marketer, you’re not a marketing automation specialist. It takes a different skill set, we need to know different technology, we need to be able to build more complex back end systems. So digital marketers are great candidates, because again, once coupled, that front end, that front end ability with the back end operations and automation are you’re in the game, you’re in the game. Okay, these are some of the most profitable and successful use cases I’ve had is with the digital marketer, okay, but it’s when they acknowledge that digital marketing isn’t enough, it’s just the beginning. All right, next, web developers, if I can, you know, if I had a secondary mission outside of just like digital marketers, it really would be web developers, because by default, the web developer is in the back end. They’re in the back end of your system already. So it is such is so complimentary, for them to be able to just add to the service of automation to their existing service offerings and immediately increase their monthly revenue by five figures. Right, it’s like an easy additive function. And it’s such a good compliment, because they’re, again, they’re already in the back end of your website. They’re already familiar with the back end operations. And a web developer is already tech. They’re already techie by default. Now, what’s the challenge? Let’s be honest, the reason why they’re a candidate and not a shoo in, is because they’re often techie. And they they very rarely possess the marketing strategy or marketing acumen required to truly be an automation service provider, right at a high level to provide the service of automation at a high level. Okay, so they could become an automated service provider, if they want to, to if they want to grow, right, strategically, in I shouldn’t say, grow strategically, I should say, grow in the area of strategic marketing. Okay. And lastly, lastly, come on now, I would be hypocritical Not to mention this engineers. That was me, an engineer. In fact, I was an engineer to a web developer to a digital marketer to automation service provider. That was my progression. If somebody would have caught me from engineering and had a path straight to automation service provider, I probably would have taken that path, I really would have now I’m glad I went through web development. So I knew how website technology worked. I’m glad I went through digital marketing to learn that they’re definitely skills that served me extremely well. But let me tell you, I am biased to all the way like if there is a bias meter, this thing is off the charts. For this statement that I’m about to make, I do believe engineers make some of the best automation service providers. I do. And again, I’m biased because I am one. But it’s something about our engineering mind that reverse engineers breaks things down. Always tinkering, always asking why. always getting into the nitty gritty, you need it, you need that. And if you have somebody like that, on your team that knows how to do automation, listen, the sky’s the limit. I have been that for multiple startups and the sky has been the limit. Okay. So those are the top industries. And again, this is from my experience, I’m not reading any blog, I’m not
Chris Davis 17:36
surveying the marketplace, I’m talking about the people I’ve witnessed with my own eyes spoken to with my own mouth, seen on my own zoom calls, go through my program, with high levels of success. These are the industries. So if you resonate with any of them, or you know, any of these industries that I’ve mentioned, now is the time to really start to consider getting into one of our automation packages, because again, if you fit these industries, you’re a strong candidate. But we don’t know yet. We don’t know just yet. And we’ll get into that. But if you want to check, listen, I’m not gonna make you wait until the end of the episode. But if you want to check if you just want to do a quick check and say, hey, look, let me let me see if I wouldn’t be a good fit. We’ve got probably the most simple assessment tool to help you identify that it’s it takes literally less than two minutes. And it will spit out an honest response to you and say, hey, look, you should you should be, you should do this. If you want to go and check that out, you can go to automationbridge.com/check. Automationbridge.com/check. All right. Now back to the back to the show here. Within these industries, you’ll also find the following personality traits. So we’ve got the industries that puts you as a candidate, right? But then we’ve got, let’s look at the personality traits here. Okay. And I’m just going to go over the traits that you really want to look for, in a person, someone who’s analytical and highly detailed, right? I mean, I’m not talking about just catching typos. They’re the type of person that a click a link and be like, Hey, your links broke. Oftentimes, you can identify these people from email, you’ll send an email out and they’re like, Hey, I think you misspelled a word, or they’re like, Hey, I think this link should go somewhere else. Because when I click it, it takes me here. You’re like, Oh, my gosh, and then you go tell your team, right? Like, we’ve got to update these links, or they’re the ones that catches, hey, you’re using a merge tag and you’re you don’t have data so it’s blank, or, Hey, your merge tag is not populating correctly. They know the term and they like they know exactly what went wrong, and they’ll tell you at As a subscriber, right? internal to your to your team, they’re the ones that aren’t you may cringe a bit when they when they talk because they’re about to bring something to your awareness that should have been caused or should have been done. And now you’re battling showing a little frustration, you know. So you want that they’re often introverted, there, this is a quality of that techie analytical nerdy brain is that they often find themselves in deep thought, deep, deep, deep tasks. Deep functioning in life, that often requires them putting on headphones, and just zoning out. It is what it is, is just like, a lot of sales professionals are extroverted, because they’ve got they’ve got to be outgoing in front of people shaking hands, kissing babies, things of that nature, right? Okay. And they’re extremely loyal. Once you know, this, the certain there’s there are certain personality types that once you encourage and enable them to operate, how they truly desire. They’re not going anywhere, anywhere at all, some of you may have these type of people on your team. And if you are identifying these traits, you need to couple them with not just a program to teach them automation my program, but also the community, they need community. These people need community, I’ve got a community full of them, where they can feel right at home with their introverted loyal and analytical sales, right? They’re also process driven, that you talk about big ideas, and they’re always like, Okay, well, here’s the first thing, then this, this, this and that, right? They’re always talking about the steps to get things done. They want to see maps, hey, you show them a flowchart. You’re like, Oh, my gosh, what is this? This is so beautiful, because it’s process, right? Things have to make sense and be connected. If it’s disjointed, it throws them off. They’re like, Well, wait a minute, where do they go next? Like, I don’t know, just build it. I can’t just build it, I need to know, right? Like, that’s what’s going on.
Chris Davis 22:16
Okay. And lastly, they value efficiency. This is big, because remember, in the previous podcast, we talked about effectiveness versus efficiency. And you could be effective and profitable. somebody with a personality trait that’s high on efficiency is who you want. They’re that they’re the they’re the type of people that are going to be like, do we really need this tool? We’ve got like three tools doing the same thing? Can we just consolidate? Right? Do we really need this step? Can we just take them here, right now. Now remember, all of these traits need to be tamed. With strategy, you can’t just let them go free. And then they’re just techie and point now stuff that’s broken and trying to get rid of tools and just fix stuff, right? They need to be contained with some strategy. And of course, they need community to help them navigate in the business room effectively. Right. But these are the traits that you’re looking for, in these industries. So we’ve got the industries of virtual system, online business manager, digital marketer, web developers, and engineers. And then within those industries, we’re looking for people who are analytical and highly detailed, often introverted, they’re extremely loyal. They’re process driven, and they value efficiency. Okay, that’s what we’re looking for. Now, of course, per last episode, there are some that I should say, per live episode, per what I’ve mentioned in this episode, there are some that need to stay far away. Okay, you don’t even need to consider. All right, and I’m just I had to be a straight shooter on this one, because respectfully, you need to sit down. Okay, sit down and let somebody else in this space for you. All right. One is the traditional CEO, this is the big picture. They see it all, all the possibilities, right? But they’re overwhelmed by tech. And they really need to be focused on either hiring somebody to do it or growing their business to the point where they can bring, if you can’t hire somebody, now they need to grow to the point where they can. Okay, so there are some basic technical things that you can do as a traditional CEO, do those basic things, get that foundation in place, I call it the Prophet pathway, get that in place, and then he immediately gets you a digital marketer that you can grow with and by grow means they can transition from digital marketing to automation service provider, okay.
Chris Davis 24:51
Now, if you are a CEO, and you have a marketer, you absolutely should send your marketer to our program and let Do the training for you. That is what you really need to do. And we also have for those seals that reach out, we have an assessment. And this is a thorough assessment, everybody that we will have your marketer go through if you say, hey, look, Chris, train my marketer, I don’t have the bandwidth. I don’t have the capacity, and I don’t have the know how, if you’re telling me in six months, you can get them up to speed. Here you go hands off. And during that six months, I’ll be you’ll be producing results for me. Take them here. So naturally, you’d be like, yeah, sure, good, send them over. But first, we’ll assess them, we’ve got a thorough assessment, and we’ll just tell you, hey, look, I know you like them as a marketer. We don’t think there’ll be the best fit to be an automation service provider for your company. We’ll just be honest with you, right? So that’s traditional CEOs, sales professionals, sales professionals, they are not they’re not good for this, they need to stay far away from from from this type of work. And here’s the reason they often don’t have the focus or desire to go deep. Right? They a sales, what I’ve learned with techie salespeople is they want to do just enough to get something in place so that they they can go make more sales. That’s it. It’s a checkbox, it’s like, Hey, you need automated system. I’m taking here, let me go figure out how to build this automated system. Okay, don’t need that. Don’t need this. Don’t need that. Got it. Okay, goodbye. They’re in and they’re out. Now, some of you may be like, what’s wrong with that take the money. That’s not the community that I’m building. I need people who are going to be in, in stay in, add value continue to grow with one another. I can’t tell you in our weekly office hours calls for everybody has gone through the automation service provider program, we talk about so many strategies, technologies, just everything this keep you in the know, there’s nobody in any of my any connected to me in that capacity. That is not the most savvy in any form of technology. Right? Because they didn’t just get what they need and leave, they stayed in it. Now sales professionals, they won’t admit it. They won’t. But they’re the ones I’ve had the most struggle with. Right? They don’t do the deep thinking they don’t do the deep work. They do just enough. Right? Okay. And the third, the third people, the third group of people are beginners, that don’t know what they want to do. Right, they should start with digital marketing, like digital marketer. I don’t know what the cost is. But they’ve got a low cost a monthly fee, you can go there, start learning about Facebook ads, email marketing, you can do all kinds of stuff. And just play around and figure out if this is something that you want to do. But I don’t have a program to help you identify that. I don’t have a means of growing you up in that capacity. You already have to have some chops or be operating at some capacity. Okay.
Chris Davis 28:04
So this is the last layer everybody last layer, okay, so we got the traditional CEO needs to stay away to sales professionals in the beginner state stay away. I would throw like analytical folks like in terms of advertising, because they often love numbers, but don’t like to build systems. You could you could put them in the should not do. But every now and then you get a you get one that’s like, hey, look, I could do that, too. So it’s tough, right? So among these types of professionals, you’ll also find their personality traits. This traditional CEO sales professional beginner. Again, big vision, ideas for days would rather come up with more than stick with one. We know these people, they’re extroverted, they love to talk to people and be in the forefront. These are often your sales professional. They’re not detail oriented or organized at all. Okay, every file has a different name. There’s no folders, they just create on the fly. They produce masses of everything they produce. They’re just writing content. They’re just going live every day. There’s no structure or order to what they do, right. And then two is they’re easily bored or bogged down with the process of or anything that causes them to sit still and think critically or analytically. They start yawning. It’s like they have so much energy talking about their ideas. And then when you move into the process and really start walking them through what it takes, they’re like they don’t mean to though, right? It’s just like you’ve activated a different part of their brain that is now exhausting them because they don’t need energy to operate in their natural. When you start talking techie process oriented. They you see it, they want to tap out, they do they want to tap out so this is more important for you to listen to this and self identify this So, okay, because the market needs those who can provide this service of automation in excellence, this is why we exist, I took the time to really sit and think through the personality types, the the the type of industries, again, from my personal experience, when I’ve seen people go and generate the revenue grow the business for themselves or their clients. So all of this is true from the battlefield, my battlefield. Okay, I’ve done all of this, because I want you to know, that if you are listening in some of these trades are listed off, you’re like, that’s me. That’s me, that’s me. Don’t wait. Don’t disqualify yourself. And don’t try to figure it out, we’ve created a tool to help you identify if you should consider becoming an automation service provider or not. It just asked some brief questions, and provides an honest answer on whether or not you should proceed. If you should proceed. We’ll we’ll jump on a call and just verify some things and we’ll get started immediately, immediately. But again, I don’t want you all to make automation service provider bigger than what it is you don’t have to be all I need to have been generated $20,000 a week in my digital marketing before I can do that. No, the program is what helps you get there. Okay. And if you are in any way, using a platform like ontraport, key, Active Campaign, right for your clients, you need to highly consider this. Now, if you do that, and you realize that you’re on the list of people who should not do it, you’ve got some reassessing to do in your business, you really do. And there’s nothing wrong with that. There’s nothing wrong with that at all. So if you want to access this tool, this assessment that does the checking for you, again, it’s it doesn’t take long, it’s just a few questions that we ask, and then we route you to the appropriate resource. That is that automationbridge.com/check. Okay, automationbridge.com/check, we’ll do all of the thinking for you. If you listen to this podcast, and you’re like, Hmm, I think I would be a good one. Let me check. That alone is part of the qualification process.
Chris Davis 32:32
Okay, so we’ve got you covered. And what I want you to do is share this with your local digital marketer, virtual assistant, web developer, online business manager or engineer. Share this with them. Okay, because this may be the explanation that they needed to solve a problem that they’ve been trying to solve in terms of, where do I go? How do I get? What’s the next step for me and my business? How do I make a bigger impact, this may be the step that they’re missing. So make sure you do me a favor, and share this episode with them if you found value in today’s episode. Now is the time if you’re not subscribed to subscribe, leave a five star rating and review. I want to thank you in advance for it. Because I know some of you listening are just like, oh my god, this is right. This is exactly what I needed. It is. And all that I’m asking for in return is a subscribe in a five star rating and review. That’s it. Here at automation bridge. If you can’t tell we’re dedicated to training digital marketing professionals. To become automation service provider. It’s my life’s work small businesses, they need it. They need systems built out back end systems. Automated functioning at high levels of efficiency, helping them be lean, but show up like a large enterprise, right. They need somebody who can take marketing strategy and technology, put it together and deploy automated systems for rapid growth. That’s what’s required. And that’s what’s needed. That’s why this episode was recorded today. All right. Now we’ve made it easy for you to get access to everything that you need. I know I’ve given you the the URL to go and do a quick check and if everything works out, you can schedule some time with myself and my team. We’ve got that but there’s one if you ever forget anything, just don’t forget this URL, it gets you access to everything and that’s all systems go podcast calm and this will get you access to the latest episodes are amplify my automation package, which is the automation service provider program is part of that and it’s geared to help you put automated marketing and sales systems in your business over the next six months. Our free Facebook group, you can request to be on the podcast or refer a guest to the podcast and any resource or training that I’ve mentioned on the podcast. There’s one URL to remember get you access to it. And that’s all systems go podcast.com Thank you for taking the time to listen to this episode and, and until next time I see you online. automate responsibly, my friends
- [2:52] Why automation isn’t for everyone
- [5:00] Why some people are great digital marketers, but aren’t going to do well as a marketing automation professional
- [6:03] The gist of what an Automation Service Provider™ is and does
- [6:55] One skill you absolutely have to have to be successful at marketing automation
- [7:55] Chris breaks down 5 specific industries that make for great Automation Service Providers™
- [18:54] The personality traits that work best in marketing automation
- [23:36] Industries that should stay far away from becoming an Automation Service Provider™
- [28:39] Personality traits that don’t tend to work out as ASP’s
- [30:35] How you can take a simple 2 minute assessment to check if you should become an ASP™
- [33:33] How to become an Automation Service Provider™
- ASG 070 – Digital Marketing vs. Marketing Automation: What’s the Difference?
- ASG 029 – What is an Automation Service Provider™
- ASG 030 – Single Quality of a Great Automation Service Provider™
- ASG 027 – The Skill of Assessing Technology
- Take the assessment to check if you should become an Automation Service Provider™
- Apply to become an Automation Service Provider™
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About the Show
On the show, Chris reveals all of his automated marketing strategies he has learned from working in fast growing marketing technology startups so you can put your business on autopilot quickly and without error.
Discover how to deploy automated marketing, sales, and delivery systems to scale your business without working long hours to do so.
Chris L. Davis
Chris is an Electrical Engineer turned entrepreneur who is the Founder of Automation Bridge, an international speaker and facilitator, and startup consultant