Trying To Do It All

Narrator 0:00
You’re listening to the off systems go podcast, the show that teaches you everything you need to know to put your business on autopilot. Learn how to deploy automated marketing and sell systems in your business the right way with your host, the professor of automation himself and founder of automation bridge, Chris Davis.

Chris Davis 0:31
Welcome to another episode of The all systems go podcast, where we invite startup founders and digital marketers to discuss software and strategies to scale your business. I’m your host, Chris L. Davis, the founder of automation bridge. And I want to

Chris Davis 0:53
I want to talk to you today about this a common saying when I was growing up was the, the idea of when somebody is just, they’re trying to do too much. And what we would say is, you’re doing too much. That’s it. And when you heard that, you knew that somebody was either just trying to be extra, right? Instead of just wearing nice clothes, you got ahead, have nice clothes and what and you’re wearing shades indoors, or instead of just one chain, you got three chains and rings and chains and a ring. And then you got to emblem on your shoelace, just doing too much is what I grew up, grew up learning and hearing. And it applies. It’s a theme, let me say this. It’s a theme that I’ve been seeing around automation. And I have a story around this, by the way, I have a story around this to kind of bring it home. But this this idea that I struggle with at times, by the way, let me just raise my hand and say I’m part of this I’m not, I’m not absorbed from from this dynamic, excuse me, and that is trying to do too much with an automation, trying to do it all I should say. And, and what I mean is this. I’ve got two stories, actually. One story was when I was I went to college, and it was my freshman year. And I did not know I was not born with a computer or a keyboard. In my hand, I was actually very tech deficient growing up. I had a natural inclination for it. But I wasn’t exposed to computers and all of that growing up. Plus, there was no such thing as high speed internet. I’m dating myself, but I used to have to listen for the dial up tone. In fact, I almost had it memorized. So you know when you were connected right through AOL, when you could buy the internet in the grocery store. And I remember going to college and not understanding about computers and taking a cis 100 class. And we were CS, it was the is 100 CS 100. We’re supposed to program a game using blue J and JavaScript at the time. And I’m programming and after a while I realized maybe it was sea ice 200. But it one of those sea ice classes, computer information systems. And after a while, I’m coding and I’m real, I’m looking at my code. And I’m just like, it’s like 40 pages. And it was, let’s say a 10 by 10 grid, alright, a 10 by 10 grid, where I had a mailman and every time he moved a few squares, dogs would appear and then they would chase him for a few squares. And what I tried to do is this, I’m not lying to you or any anybody listening to this, that’s a coder, maybe you have a similar story, and you won’t laugh as hard. But what I ended up doing was this, I try to think of every possible outcome and hard code, every possible outcome. So I said, Well, if he’s on this square, he could move to this square, this square this square, it was what 3678 is eight squares that he could move to. So I would code for that one square, there’s eight possibilities. And I would do this for every square. So this is 100. So I’m essentially coding for 800 possibilities. Just going square by square a little under because if you’re on the corner, you don’t have a full eight squares, but you get what I’m saying. And it was just unmanageable. Because then when I put in the dogs, the dogs occupied a square. And then I had to calculate all of the squares around the dog and say, Oh, well wait a minute. If one of those squares a dog is on it, don’t it can’t move in. If one of the squares the mailman is on a game over too many. It was it got too deep my colega so convoluted. And I was like wait a minute. This isn’t making sense. I need him I need somebody to come help me. So I went to one of my friends, a Vietnamese guy when when was his name? And he sat me down. And he said, Chris, that he looked at me, and I could, he had the stupid look on his face, I’ll be honest, he looked at me like I was an idiot. And I did not get offended, because at that point in time, I knew I did not know what I was doing. And he slowly walked me through, he said, You, you’re coding wrong. He said, the computer supposed to do the thinking? And I was like, What do you mean, the computer supposed to do the thinking. And he essentially was showing me how to use for loops, cases, and all of that, so that the computer did all the calculation, long story short, I ended up finishing my code. It’s like maybe five pages, I go from, like 45 pages down to five pages. And I’m using, again, for loops, case statements, all of these things that let the technology do all of the thinking for me. And sure enough, I get an A on the on the, on the assignment. Now, that was a prime example of just trying to do it all I was, I was trying with my limited knowledge, I was trying to encompass every single consideration and outcome. And this is the same approach that I see people making. When it comes to automation building. And critiquing, by the way, I’m going to get to the critiques in a minute.

Chris Davis 6:26
And there’s a few, a few podcasts that I want you to listen to episode number 48, how to simplify your automations that is instrumental to this just kind of gives you your bearings in approaching, if you’re not a longtime listener, make sure you listen to that one. And then another one is episode 51. This is me being transparent. So you could feel comfortable, you can feel comfortable in the mistakes that you’ve made and will make, but it’s automation gone wrong. And it’s again, another another thing that you can be fearful of getting things wrong or breaking things or not doing things right. And it really can prevent you from just going and getting the best version out. Right. So that leads us to podcast number 15, episode number 15. Why marketing is so exhausting. And exhilarating, is because of all of these considerations that you can’t possibly accurately effectively plan for. Even Even if you map it out. I’m a huge proponent, map out the process, make it visual, solve your problems analog before you program it digital, all of that, you still are not going to be able to encompass every single outcome. So don’t try. And this This podcast is dedicated to both the founder and business owner and the Digital Marketer. For the founder and business owner, let me just tell you stop thinking that you have to encompass every single outcome, you’re looking for the most probable outcome. Again, I’ve got another story and some examples to share. And then for the Digital Marketer Don’t Don’t feel pressure for that digital marketer wanting to be a marketing automation specialist and automation service providers. Well, we call them if you aspire to be the cream of the crop, you can’t you can’t be held hostage by trying to make a case for every single outcome that somebody can take throughout the customer journey. It’s not possible. It’s just not realistic. And I was talking to one founder, and they had clearly, you know, this was their first time doing any form of email follow up sequences, and they were like, you know, I always I don’t I don’t quite know, the timing, which is one of the big, big questions that I get from a lot of founders is how long should I wait, not just founders, just people in general? How long should I wait between emails? They didn’t quite have it? And then they were like, and then should we send it when someone clicks to send a different email when they open? And I saw it. I saw it right there. They were doing too much, right? doing too much trying to trying to do it all at once thinking of okay, well, we need a case where if they open within they don’t click but then what if they click within they don’t fill out the form it trying to create this. You want to make sure that all bases are covered. All right. Let me say that because that’s probably the mindset that you’re in. And I said, I said listen, hey, let’s let’s slow down, slow down. We, I believe in three to five email sequences coming from this source and based on the context of your marketing, and we will keep the call to action singular, and there is no need to, you know, branch off of opens and clicks and all of that. Let’s first just have one consistent call to action when they fill out the form. We’ll stop sending them emails at the end of this sequence. If we don’t like the performance, we have more than enough data in that follow up sequence to say, Okay, let’s remail everyone who opened every email or at least click to emails, right? Like I simplified it. And what did I do? This this is? This, again is one of the qualities that I talk about what episode is, and I’ve got all of my podcasts in front of you episode number 30, the single quality of a great automation service provider. And that is this decision making, being able to make a decision knowing there’s other possibilities, other outcomes. Right, other considerations, other paths are the results. And being firm with the path that you decide, right? Being confident standing 10 toes down is what they say 10 toes down on, this is the direction we’re going and defending it. Right. This is what an automation service provider is, which is, by the way, the reason why I train them up, we train each other, we grow together. And it’s the only recommendation that I will ever have if you’re trying to get automation done the right way. So with that being said, when I when I proposed that simplified solution, it wasn’t that it was

Chris Davis 11:18
less effective. In fact, it put everybody at ease, everyone was like, oh, yeah, first off, they can easily understand it. It was easily understood, like, okay, yeah, let’s do that we can do that. It went from overwhelming to doable, just like that right? into is I just saved everybody, a whole bunch of stress. And acumen required to monitor and maintain such a thing, right like that would. I’ve built sequences like that, by the way, so let me say this, the only way that you get strong in your decision making process is to have experienced, so I’ve built in and measured experience. So I built sequences like that, if they opened do this, if they didn’t click do that, you know, XYZ all in an automation, and it did not produce that much more results. It just didn’t, it didn’t perform that much more. So unless you’re in an industry, where that type of granularity in your marketing will produce something, you’re usually just doing it for the sake of Oh, I know how to do it. And I know how to make the software do it, right. It’s this, it’s this inaccurate approach of creating the quote unquote, perfect journey, you’ll never create the perfect journey, there’s always going to be something to consider that you haven’t considered. And there’s always going to be something that you’ve considered that you’re going to have to make the conscious decision to leave out. This is the mark of an expert, automation specialist, and a junior Digital Marketer. This is the difference. The junior Digital Marketer tries to do it all, Oh, don’t worry, if they do this, we’ll have this, then we’ll retarget them here, then we’ll send this email then the expert says, Listen, all of these possibilities somebody can take, they can take, they can do all of that. However, we’re going to focus on this one, I know that all of this other stuff is out here. But experiences show me if we hone in on this one, we’ll get more juice out of one squeezing of this fruit, then to continually try to you know work the fruit from every angle. And it takes time everybody it does, it takes time. And I want to that was actually just the foundation for this episode. What I want to do is kind of set the table and let you know that one part of this is intentionally not trying to build the perfect journey. The other part is understanding that people will experience that. And for every funnel, there’s two things that are consistent in every funnel, leads and critics. Okay, sometimes they’re synonymous, sometimes they’re not. Right. But you’re always going to have that for every marketing funnel that you ever build. Why? Because Martin marketing online digital marketing is visible. So everything that you do, I see. Okay, I opted into your list, I see the decision of what thank you page you sent me to write. So if that’s the case, that means that at some point, you’re gonna have to get some thick skin. Right in marketing online, because from the outside looking in. Yeah, it’s easy to see the flaws and critique and point, it’s always easier to critique than it is to create. So if some if there’s a car moving, anything, any any moving object captures the attention of people that’s just human nature. And it’s easier for me to focus on and say, Look, those dirty wheels or hey, look at that car is going to crash, right? So anytime you’re moving, you’re progressing. You’re going to attract attention, and then pay People are going to come in and they’re going to poke holes. They’re going to say, hey, look, your link is broken. Hey, look, why are you doing this? Don’t take it personal. But also don’t ignore it. Right? Because based on where you’re at in your journey, it could be extremely helpful. For me when I was starting out in digital marketing, I really did appreciate people saying, Hey, your link is broke. Oh, thank you. Oh, my goodness, can’t believe I messed that up. Right? Hey, Chris, you sent me this. But where’s the link or this is misspelled whatever the case may be. In fact, I’ve got amazing ASP, I’m going to call them out certified automation service providers that have an AI that is so meticulous it is it beats mine every day of the week. Two that come to mind just really quick. They’re on the website, automation bridge website in the directory, Jude rush, and Carrie Kreiger. Oh, my goodness, oh, my goodness, they will catch going through them going through my program and just being part of the community and everything has been such, oh, my goodness, it’s been such a blessing in aid, because they literally catch everything. Hey, Chris, I realize I couldn’t log in from the website, there’s no link to the academy on the homepage. Simple, simple oversight, right. But again, a consideration that I missed, but trusted resources bring him to my attention. And I could take action. Now that’s the difference. When you’re just starting out every every critic every lead you might want to listen to because they’re showing up holes that you didn’t know were there. But as you get more experienced more than often those holes are going to be more intentional than unintentional. They’re going to be intentional decision to say, hey, look, I’m choosing not to focus on that right now. Oh, I know it’s there. I know there’s a hole in that wall. I’ll get to it. Right. When you get to that point, you need trusted voices, peoples whose acumen is at a level that you respect to be able to take on their critique and what they see. Otherwise, you’ll be listening to everybody and everybody is not worth listening to. And I want to I want to take I want to use this example. Because I was a critique. And that’s how I used to get business. Right it back in the day, I used to make YouTube videos and walking through people’s funnels pointing out what’s wrong, and efforts to get on their radar so that they can hire me to do work for them. And I’ll tell you what,

Chris Davis 17:30
it never quite worked. You know, there’s something about leading with criticism for me, let me just say, for me, maybe some of you out there have have a different strategy that has worked really well. What you critique is somebody’s funnel, and them saying, Hey, let me hire you to to fix it. Usually, it didn’t work out for me. And usually when somebody does it to me, I’m unimpressed. I really am. You would have to lead with extreme value in order to catch my attention in that respect. And you’d have to show me something I didn’t know. Right? So so let me walk walk through this example that that happened to me earlier in my career. Again, I’m a critique. I’m critiquing everything. And this was a particular entertainer, actually, that I reached out to I had the a bunch of cold email templates. And I reached out and said, hey, you know what, the email template, which essentially gets a good reply and gets it gets the conversation started long story short, I’m through critiquing, right? I went on and said, Well, hey, look, every time you send a newsletter, this is happening are look at this newsletter, this isn’t. This isn’t right. Oh, look, this link is broken. Right? It got to the point where they actually did reach out and say, hey, we’ll look, can you do this stuff? And I was like, yes. Now. Look at this, I did not charge at the at that point of my career, I was just trying to increase my clientele. I think those that critique others marketing, in order for it, to try to turn it into lead generation for themselves, I think they have a warped vision of marketing, let me not say a warped vision of marketing. I think they’re light on their lead generation skills. And they probably have not had enough exposure to the market and don’t have enough experience under their belt to truly generate the demand for their services. Right. And that was definitely me. That was definitely me at the time. And I again, so I approached them and I don’t charge them because I know that I came to you you didn’t you didn’t come seeking me. I came seeking you. And I didn’t I every I did everything that I said I would do. And email performance increased. And so all of my recommendations paid off. And that was one situation where I had an opportunity to get paid on the job and I choose not chose not to. No knock on you, if that’s what you end up Choosing to do is like, hey, look, well, I don’t know what I’m doing, but you’re gonna pay me to figure it out. No knock, I just didn’t do it in that instance in that situation. Now, I had done such a good job over time the entertainer ends up sending me clothing, merch, checks in the mail just out of appreciation. Right? And to this day, to this day, even though they’ve gotten much bigger than they were when when I initially reached out to him, but to this day, we still catch up with one another via text, when I’m in his city who actually go out of his way. Come meet me for dinner. You know, like, who am I, I’m not an entertainer, I don’t have any skills of that magnitude. But there was this mutual respect, because I came to him with a critiquing. But I was able to deliver on what I was critiquing. That’s the difference. Now, let me say this, some of you should be ashamed of yourself, the type of critiquing that you’re doing, because you really don’t have the skills to do beyond what’s your, you don’t have the skill, your skills don’t translate as far as you think they do. Right? And here’s what I mean. Be careful with understand your audience, right? Be careful who you critique. Because if you’re going to critique somebody like myself, I’m pretty aware of all the holes in my marketing, if there’s something there, it’s there intentionally at this point in the game. So if you email me saying, hey, look, why is this happening? Or, Hey, I thought you would, you’re supposed to stop sending emails. First and foremost, nobody is above not having nobody is above having an imperfect system. I’m not, I used to live and tell myself, Chris, you’re the example. There’s no way you can make a mistake? No, no experts make mistakes, I will be lying. Why would I put up such a facade? That’s not true, right? That no system is perfect. Now, if I was spending my time, all the time building my system, there’s a closer chance to it. But as you grow and scale, you got different Pete, you have to bring people and you have to build out that implementation infrastructure. And let me tell you this for all of my automation builders who are growing into the founder, and the true founders and CEOs of their company, and realize I need to work on my business study in the business is going to be hard liveness system go. It is there, you thought there was some considerations that you are leaving alone, just because, you know, hey, I know, these are possibilities, but I’m just focused on that. They grow when someone else is doing it, because you may have to simplify the scope or simplify the operations, so that they can build their confidence in executing your marketing. So you this is, this is a skill, trying not to do it all is a skill that you have to learn and pick up. Because it’s required as you grow. It is required as you grow. And what we were talking about is, if if you’re gonna reach out to an expert in the space, please do it respectfully, right? Because if you’re going to bring up something basic and simple.

Chris Davis 23:10
And think that that’s going to catch my attention. No, any, anybody on any given day could go to my website can look, read an email, find a typo, go to a website, find a broken link, I can do it to your to your website to that that’s not ammunition for you to say, hey, something’s broke, want to hire me to fix it? No, that’s just the mere nature of digital marketing. Now, do not get me wrong, do not get me wrong. Sometimes you go to some people’s website, and you see that they’re making like such a large mistake. You can’t not say something is like, Hold on, I just You don’t even have to hire me. That’s different. That’s that’s different. Right? That’s constructive criticism, I will say, but a critic is someone who’s like, Oh, you’re not doing this, right? You’re not doing this right, in order to either pump themselves up, or to sell their service to you. Right? Again, this is the other side. So I’m not going to tell you, hey, look, don’t try to do it all in automation. And then in there, because when you don’t try to do it all, and then you start getting emails from people, you’re like, oh, shoot, I need to do more, you may be tempted. I have for the longest.

Chris Davis 24:22
One consideration that I’ve always left off the table is what to do when someone responds to an email. And the reason being is because there’s no way to really know the nature of a response. And you don’t know if that response is somebody asking a question, somebody’s raising an issue, or somebody’s actually responding to an email. So it’s very tricky to do any automation based off a response. I just felt like doing something like that wouldn’t be worth the trouble or the time let me say wouldn’t be worth the time to figure it out what you get as a result of it. So I just say You know what, even though I asked people to reply in my emails, I’m not going to stop their sequence or journey through the emails based on their reply because it’s just too random. Now, this is me going into it fully aware that this is a use case, somebody can respond and still get email communication. And there have been some times where I haven’t felt comfortable with it. Right? If somebody has responded, I’m just like, You know what, I’m going to manually go in here and turn off, I’m going to manually go in here and turn off the feature emails. And I can’t, the only time that’s worked well for me is if they’re in a sales cycle, not a lead cycle, not where I’m just trying to get them to take a next step. But when I’ve actually had like, a sales call with them, or they’ve had a sales call with somebody on my team, and they’re in the decision making process, absolutely, I want to isolate them. But besides that, you know, it’s just kind of like, you, you, you know, you’re gonna get automated emails from me, right? Where we fall in, I’m not writing all my emails up, cats out the bag, or rabbits out that whatever the whatever this was saying goes, right. So if you were, if someone were to approach me and say, hey, look, I responded, but you keep sending me these emails. First off, of course, my support team will reach out to them. Or if I reached out to him, it would just kind of what I love doing in my responses, letting people know where they’re at in the automation, like, oh, look, yeah, you’re right here. And based on the information, this is, you know, whatever. So, that being said, if somebody was, if you really wanted to get my business, what would you have to do? You’d have to prove to me, if somebody says, hey, look, your follow up, you should really change your call to action in your emails, Chris? Okay, who are you, then I go to your website check you out, you would have to at least have done something respectable to me, for me to even entertain the idea of bringing you on to do anything for me. Write me I’ve scaled businesses to millions, if you haven’t scaled a business to 1000s don’t critique my marketing and say, hey, look, what I can do this for you, you see those millions you made, I can make you 1000s doesn’t even sound right, right. But lo and behold, this will happen, this will happen to you. In fact, it may be happening to you right now. This is one of the top things that happens to me over the years. And again, it makes sense because this is one of the main things that I was doing. I was opting into people’s lists, trying to get their attention by critiquing their marketing. And it’s not an achievement, do not give yourself a false positive thinking that you’re smart, or that you’re further than you are because you can critique and see holes in someone else’s marketing. Mess, like looking through a window and seeing a dirty room who can’t not see it. It’s a window, it’s not a door, like I can see straight through it and see the clothes on the floor. Do I applaud your vision, know what vide you’ve done, you’ve done nothing special, right? But this is what you’re going to have to balance out. When you go forth online and say, Look, I’m putting my marketing on display, people aren’t gonna be able to see everything that I’m doing. And it’s okay. It’s okay. If somebody finds a typo, or points out a link, click and says, Hey, look, I can fix this for you gonna cost you that comes with the territory, everybody. So at the end of the day, why did what Chris Why are you saying all of this? Because one is the term I never heard the term imposter syndrome until I started working at Active Campaign. And it kind of was like everywhere within the company. I was like, What is this word, because I don’t feel like I’ve ever navigated under that premise. But once I heard it, recency bias, I see it all the time. Now, people think they have to be bigger and better than what they really are. And I lead transparently that listen, you can find flaws in my marketing funnel, you can find things that I can improve on. That’s not the green light for you to pitch your services.

Chris Davis 29:24
Right. So for the marketer that’s doing it, you might want to stop, and then for the business owner, that’s looking for a marketer to do it, to do their marketing. Just don’t think that everything every possible outcome is going to be adhere to with one customer journey. That’s not the goal. So why am I recording this expectation setting on both sides? Right expectation setting on both sides to understand what it really looks like in terms of decision making. Anytime you see a profitable funnel, a profitable marketing process online, there’s all kinds of considerations that were left off the table or on the table, I should say, just left there, hey, look, I know these are all possibilities. I’m going to do it just I can’t, it’d be, it’d be too hard to track and trace. And it takes an experience. My last story, I was just working with a startup and ecommerce and there was so much opportunity, so much opportunity on the table me, man, can we segment by category? Maybe we should a segment by amount purchase? What about order amount of orders? Just all of this right? And what do I have to do as as the expert I come in and make an executive decision, and in that that’s the executive decision. It’s like the opportunity costs, right? When you say yes to one thing, you’re saying no to all these other things, you just have to be okay with that. Right, and move forward confidently, and have thick skin, when maybe the opportunity or the path that you took wasn’t the most profitable, okay? That’s why marketers have to shift and adjust. And always measure and optimize, right? If there’s something in your funnel, and it’s getting a lot of replies. Another case in point was, I was using a particular auto responder, they shall remain nameless, I’m not going to shame on publicly, I did shame on privately in my community. By the way, if you’re not part of the community, we do a private podcast, monthly office hours, all of that, where I get to speak freely, if you want to know about these companies, and you know that I’m talking about I named drop without hesitation. So anyways, this company messed up my autoresponders. They’re always messing up my auto responders, and it’s always their fault. It literally is always their fault. I log in and something’s wrong. And I didn’t touch anything in there. But how did I get there is that people kept emailing me saying, Hey, Chris, something’s wrong, something’s wrong, something’s wrong. So where there’s smoke, there’s often fire, and that led me to go in. So with that being said, you don’t want to ignore the critics because some of them are not critiquing you, in a sense to make them feel better, or puff their chest up, or even try to pitch their services. Some people are critiquing, because they find value in what you’re doing. And they want to keep receiving it in the case that I had. They weren’t getting the emails anymore. They’re like, where are they, we need these emails, that I will respond to that all day. Right? So you have to you just have to be ready. I guess this is like a readiness podcast episode, you just have to be ready for all of the outcomes that you can conceive that I mentioned on this podcast, and all of them that you can’t, and just know, you’re you’re making. Sometimes we’re hard on ourselves. And sometimes we just have to pat ourselves on the back and say, I’m doing the best right now, with what I know right now. Right? It’s okay to say that I’m doing the best right now, with what I know right now. And just be confident. And knowing that that the version you’re deploying, it’s always going to have holes, it’s always going to have room for improvement. And there’s always going to be somebody poking holes and making fun of them. Right? That that’s just the nature, right? It’s, it will always be the case. And maybe that’s what’s intimidating with digital marketing to some people. But again, I just want to encourage you, and give you insight on the process, it’s okay, at the end of the day, look at your results. If your results are great. There, you can always improve and make them greater. But don’t lose any sleep over it. Don’t lose any sleep over trying to do it all. And don’t lose any sleep over not doing all in somebody’s pointing out the fact that you’re not doing it all. It takes a measured, experienced approach to do this online marketing thing the right way. And my hope is that after listening to this episode, you give yourself that much more leeway, that much more freedom to be imperfect, but profitable. And on the flip side,

Chris Davis 34:12
hopefully it gives you that maybe it makes you pause. And actually, if you’re going to be a critique, do it wholeheartedly, right? Don’t do it to try to pitch services or sell anything like that, but do it to actually help in aid. It will go a long way. And we’re all here to help one another. All right. So hopefully, hopefully that lands well with you all and just know, I’m probably is a messed up thing to say and do what I would do it. I’m probably on your list marketer, probably on your list under my fictitious email and just rest assured knowing I’m silently critiquing and judging all the holes in your marketing funnel, but it’s okay. It’s okay. because my expectation of you is not perfection, and it just helps me appreciate your humanity and mortality in marketing that much more. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of The all systems go podcast. If you enjoyed it, make sure that you’re subscribed at the time of recording the all systems go podcast is free to subscribe to, and it can be found in Apple podcast, Google podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts new episodes are released every Thursday, so make sure you’re subscribed so that you don’t miss out and while you’re at it, please leave us a five star rating and review to show some love but also to help future listeners more easily find the podcast so they can experience the value of goodness as well. We’ve compiled all resources mentioned on the podcast, as well as other resources that are extremely valuable and effective at helping you grow your marketing automation skills quickly. And you can access them all at allsystemsgopodcast.com Thanks again for listening. And until next time, I see you online. Automate responsibly my friends

Narrator 0:00
You’re listening to the off systems go podcast, the show that teaches you everything you need to know to put your business on autopilot. Learn how to deploy automated marketing and sell systems in your business the right way with your host, the professor of automation himself and founder of automation bridge, Chris Davis.

Chris Davis 0:31
Welcome to another episode of The all systems go podcast, where we invite startup founders and digital marketers to discuss software and strategies to scale your business. I’m your host, Chris L. Davis, the founder of automation bridge. And I want to

Chris Davis 0:53
I want to talk to you today about this a common saying when I was growing up was the, the idea of when somebody is just, they’re trying to do too much. And what we would say is, you’re doing too much. That’s it. And when you heard that, you knew that somebody was either just trying to be extra, right? Instead of just wearing nice clothes, you got ahead, have nice clothes and what and you’re wearing shades indoors, or instead of just one chain, you got three chains and rings and chains and a ring. And then you got to emblem on your shoelace, just doing too much is what I grew up, grew up learning and hearing. And it applies. It’s a theme, let me say this. It’s a theme that I’ve been seeing around automation. And I have a story around this, by the way, I have a story around this to kind of bring it home. But this this idea that I struggle with at times, by the way, let me just raise my hand and say I’m part of this I’m not, I’m not absorbed from from this dynamic, excuse me, and that is trying to do too much with an automation, trying to do it all I should say. And, and what I mean is this. I’ve got two stories, actually. One story was when I was I went to college, and it was my freshman year. And I did not know I was not born with a computer or a keyboard. In my hand, I was actually very tech deficient growing up. I had a natural inclination for it. But I wasn’t exposed to computers and all of that growing up. Plus, there was no such thing as high speed internet. I’m dating myself, but I used to have to listen for the dial up tone. In fact, I almost had it memorized. So you know when you were connected right through AOL, when you could buy the internet in the grocery store. And I remember going to college and not understanding about computers and taking a cis 100 class. And we were CS, it was the is 100 CS 100. We’re supposed to program a game using blue J and JavaScript at the time. And I’m programming and after a while I realized maybe it was sea ice 200. But it one of those sea ice classes, computer information systems. And after a while, I’m coding and I’m real, I’m looking at my code. And I’m just like, it’s like 40 pages. And it was, let’s say a 10 by 10 grid, alright, a 10 by 10 grid, where I had a mailman and every time he moved a few squares, dogs would appear and then they would chase him for a few squares. And what I tried to do is this, I’m not lying to you or any anybody listening to this, that’s a coder, maybe you have a similar story, and you won’t laugh as hard. But what I ended up doing was this, I try to think of every possible outcome and hard code, every possible outcome. So I said, Well, if he’s on this square, he could move to this square, this square this square, it was what 3678 is eight squares that he could move to. So I would code for that one square, there’s eight possibilities. And I would do this for every square. So this is 100. So I’m essentially coding for 800 possibilities. Just going square by square a little under because if you’re on the corner, you don’t have a full eight squares, but you get what I’m saying. And it was just unmanageable. Because then when I put in the dogs, the dogs occupied a square. And then I had to calculate all of the squares around the dog and say, Oh, well wait a minute. If one of those squares a dog is on it, don’t it can’t move in. If one of the squares the mailman is on a game over too many. It was it got too deep my colega so convoluted. And I was like wait a minute. This isn’t making sense. I need him I need somebody to come help me. So I went to one of my friends, a Vietnamese guy when when was his name? And he sat me down. And he said, Chris, that he looked at me, and I could, he had the stupid look on his face, I’ll be honest, he looked at me like I was an idiot. And I did not get offended, because at that point in time, I knew I did not know what I was doing. And he slowly walked me through, he said, You, you’re coding wrong. He said, the computer supposed to do the thinking? And I was like, What do you mean, the computer supposed to do the thinking. And he essentially was showing me how to use for loops, cases, and all of that, so that the computer did all the calculation, long story short, I ended up finishing my code. It’s like maybe five pages, I go from, like 45 pages down to five pages. And I’m using, again, for loops, case statements, all of these things that let the technology do all of the thinking for me. And sure enough, I get an A on the on the, on the assignment. Now, that was a prime example of just trying to do it all I was, I was trying with my limited knowledge, I was trying to encompass every single consideration and outcome. And this is the same approach that I see people making. When it comes to automation building. And critiquing, by the way, I’m going to get to the critiques in a minute.

Chris Davis 6:26
And there’s a few, a few podcasts that I want you to listen to episode number 48, how to simplify your automations that is instrumental to this just kind of gives you your bearings in approaching, if you’re not a longtime listener, make sure you listen to that one. And then another one is episode 51. This is me being transparent. So you could feel comfortable, you can feel comfortable in the mistakes that you’ve made and will make, but it’s automation gone wrong. And it’s again, another another thing that you can be fearful of getting things wrong or breaking things or not doing things right. And it really can prevent you from just going and getting the best version out. Right. So that leads us to podcast number 15, episode number 15. Why marketing is so exhausting. And exhilarating, is because of all of these considerations that you can’t possibly accurately effectively plan for. Even Even if you map it out. I’m a huge proponent, map out the process, make it visual, solve your problems analog before you program it digital, all of that, you still are not going to be able to encompass every single outcome. So don’t try. And this This podcast is dedicated to both the founder and business owner and the Digital Marketer. For the founder and business owner, let me just tell you stop thinking that you have to encompass every single outcome, you’re looking for the most probable outcome. Again, I’ve got another story and some examples to share. And then for the Digital Marketer Don’t Don’t feel pressure for that digital marketer wanting to be a marketing automation specialist and automation service providers. Well, we call them if you aspire to be the cream of the crop, you can’t you can’t be held hostage by trying to make a case for every single outcome that somebody can take throughout the customer journey. It’s not possible. It’s just not realistic. And I was talking to one founder, and they had clearly, you know, this was their first time doing any form of email follow up sequences, and they were like, you know, I always I don’t I don’t quite know, the timing, which is one of the big, big questions that I get from a lot of founders is how long should I wait, not just founders, just people in general? How long should I wait between emails? They didn’t quite have it? And then they were like, and then should we send it when someone clicks to send a different email when they open? And I saw it. I saw it right there. They were doing too much, right? doing too much trying to trying to do it all at once thinking of okay, well, we need a case where if they open within they don’t click but then what if they click within they don’t fill out the form it trying to create this. You want to make sure that all bases are covered. All right. Let me say that because that’s probably the mindset that you’re in. And I said, I said listen, hey, let’s let’s slow down, slow down. We, I believe in three to five email sequences coming from this source and based on the context of your marketing, and we will keep the call to action singular, and there is no need to, you know, branch off of opens and clicks and all of that. Let’s first just have one consistent call to action when they fill out the form. We’ll stop sending them emails at the end of this sequence. If we don’t like the performance, we have more than enough data in that follow up sequence to say, Okay, let’s remail everyone who opened every email or at least click to emails, right? Like I simplified it. And what did I do? This this is? This, again is one of the qualities that I talk about what episode is, and I’ve got all of my podcasts in front of you episode number 30, the single quality of a great automation service provider. And that is this decision making, being able to make a decision knowing there’s other possibilities, other outcomes. Right, other considerations, other paths are the results. And being firm with the path that you decide, right? Being confident standing 10 toes down is what they say 10 toes down on, this is the direction we’re going and defending it. Right. This is what an automation service provider is, which is, by the way, the reason why I train them up, we train each other, we grow together. And it’s the only recommendation that I will ever have if you’re trying to get automation done the right way. So with that being said, when I when I proposed that simplified solution, it wasn’t that it was

Chris Davis 11:18
less effective. In fact, it put everybody at ease, everyone was like, oh, yeah, first off, they can easily understand it. It was easily understood, like, okay, yeah, let’s do that we can do that. It went from overwhelming to doable, just like that right? into is I just saved everybody, a whole bunch of stress. And acumen required to monitor and maintain such a thing, right like that would. I’ve built sequences like that, by the way, so let me say this, the only way that you get strong in your decision making process is to have experienced, so I’ve built in and measured experience. So I built sequences like that, if they opened do this, if they didn’t click do that, you know, XYZ all in an automation, and it did not produce that much more results. It just didn’t, it didn’t perform that much more. So unless you’re in an industry, where that type of granularity in your marketing will produce something, you’re usually just doing it for the sake of Oh, I know how to do it. And I know how to make the software do it, right. It’s this, it’s this inaccurate approach of creating the quote unquote, perfect journey, you’ll never create the perfect journey, there’s always going to be something to consider that you haven’t considered. And there’s always going to be something that you’ve considered that you’re going to have to make the conscious decision to leave out. This is the mark of an expert, automation specialist, and a junior Digital Marketer. This is the difference. The junior Digital Marketer tries to do it all, Oh, don’t worry, if they do this, we’ll have this, then we’ll retarget them here, then we’ll send this email then the expert says, Listen, all of these possibilities somebody can take, they can take, they can do all of that. However, we’re going to focus on this one, I know that all of this other stuff is out here. But experiences show me if we hone in on this one, we’ll get more juice out of one squeezing of this fruit, then to continually try to you know work the fruit from every angle. And it takes time everybody it does, it takes time. And I want to that was actually just the foundation for this episode. What I want to do is kind of set the table and let you know that one part of this is intentionally not trying to build the perfect journey. The other part is understanding that people will experience that. And for every funnel, there’s two things that are consistent in every funnel, leads and critics. Okay, sometimes they’re synonymous, sometimes they’re not. Right. But you’re always going to have that for every marketing funnel that you ever build. Why? Because Martin marketing online digital marketing is visible. So everything that you do, I see. Okay, I opted into your list, I see the decision of what thank you page you sent me to write. So if that’s the case, that means that at some point, you’re gonna have to get some thick skin. Right in marketing online, because from the outside looking in. Yeah, it’s easy to see the flaws and critique and point, it’s always easier to critique than it is to create. So if some if there’s a car moving, anything, any any moving object captures the attention of people that’s just human nature. And it’s easier for me to focus on and say, Look, those dirty wheels or hey, look at that car is going to crash, right? So anytime you’re moving, you’re progressing. You’re going to attract attention, and then pay People are going to come in and they’re going to poke holes. They’re going to say, hey, look, your link is broken. Hey, look, why are you doing this? Don’t take it personal. But also don’t ignore it. Right? Because based on where you’re at in your journey, it could be extremely helpful. For me when I was starting out in digital marketing, I really did appreciate people saying, Hey, your link is broke. Oh, thank you. Oh, my goodness, can’t believe I messed that up. Right? Hey, Chris, you sent me this. But where’s the link or this is misspelled whatever the case may be. In fact, I’ve got amazing ASP, I’m going to call them out certified automation service providers that have an AI that is so meticulous it is it beats mine every day of the week. Two that come to mind just really quick. They’re on the website, automation bridge website in the directory, Jude rush, and Carrie Kreiger. Oh, my goodness, oh, my goodness, they will catch going through them going through my program and just being part of the community and everything has been such, oh, my goodness, it’s been such a blessing in aid, because they literally catch everything. Hey, Chris, I realize I couldn’t log in from the website, there’s no link to the academy on the homepage. Simple, simple oversight, right. But again, a consideration that I missed, but trusted resources bring him to my attention. And I could take action. Now that’s the difference. When you’re just starting out every every critic every lead you might want to listen to because they’re showing up holes that you didn’t know were there. But as you get more experienced more than often those holes are going to be more intentional than unintentional. They’re going to be intentional decision to say, hey, look, I’m choosing not to focus on that right now. Oh, I know it’s there. I know there’s a hole in that wall. I’ll get to it. Right. When you get to that point, you need trusted voices, peoples whose acumen is at a level that you respect to be able to take on their critique and what they see. Otherwise, you’ll be listening to everybody and everybody is not worth listening to. And I want to I want to take I want to use this example. Because I was a critique. And that’s how I used to get business. Right it back in the day, I used to make YouTube videos and walking through people’s funnels pointing out what’s wrong, and efforts to get on their radar so that they can hire me to do work for them. And I’ll tell you what,

Chris Davis 17:30
it never quite worked. You know, there’s something about leading with criticism for me, let me just say, for me, maybe some of you out there have have a different strategy that has worked really well. What you critique is somebody’s funnel, and them saying, Hey, let me hire you to to fix it. Usually, it didn’t work out for me. And usually when somebody does it to me, I’m unimpressed. I really am. You would have to lead with extreme value in order to catch my attention in that respect. And you’d have to show me something I didn’t know. Right? So so let me walk walk through this example that that happened to me earlier in my career. Again, I’m a critique. I’m critiquing everything. And this was a particular entertainer, actually, that I reached out to I had the a bunch of cold email templates. And I reached out and said, hey, you know what, the email template, which essentially gets a good reply and gets it gets the conversation started long story short, I’m through critiquing, right? I went on and said, Well, hey, look, every time you send a newsletter, this is happening are look at this newsletter, this isn’t. This isn’t right. Oh, look, this link is broken. Right? It got to the point where they actually did reach out and say, hey, we’ll look, can you do this stuff? And I was like, yes. Now. Look at this, I did not charge at the at that point of my career, I was just trying to increase my clientele. I think those that critique others marketing, in order for it, to try to turn it into lead generation for themselves, I think they have a warped vision of marketing, let me not say a warped vision of marketing. I think they’re light on their lead generation skills. And they probably have not had enough exposure to the market and don’t have enough experience under their belt to truly generate the demand for their services. Right. And that was definitely me. That was definitely me at the time. And I again, so I approached them and I don’t charge them because I know that I came to you you didn’t you didn’t come seeking me. I came seeking you. And I didn’t I every I did everything that I said I would do. And email performance increased. And so all of my recommendations paid off. And that was one situation where I had an opportunity to get paid on the job and I choose not chose not to. No knock on you, if that’s what you end up Choosing to do is like, hey, look, well, I don’t know what I’m doing, but you’re gonna pay me to figure it out. No knock, I just didn’t do it in that instance in that situation. Now, I had done such a good job over time the entertainer ends up sending me clothing, merch, checks in the mail just out of appreciation. Right? And to this day, to this day, even though they’ve gotten much bigger than they were when when I initially reached out to him, but to this day, we still catch up with one another via text, when I’m in his city who actually go out of his way. Come meet me for dinner. You know, like, who am I, I’m not an entertainer, I don’t have any skills of that magnitude. But there was this mutual respect, because I came to him with a critiquing. But I was able to deliver on what I was critiquing. That’s the difference. Now, let me say this, some of you should be ashamed of yourself, the type of critiquing that you’re doing, because you really don’t have the skills to do beyond what’s your, you don’t have the skill, your skills don’t translate as far as you think they do. Right? And here’s what I mean. Be careful with understand your audience, right? Be careful who you critique. Because if you’re going to critique somebody like myself, I’m pretty aware of all the holes in my marketing, if there’s something there, it’s there intentionally at this point in the game. So if you email me saying, hey, look, why is this happening? Or, Hey, I thought you would, you’re supposed to stop sending emails. First and foremost, nobody is above not having nobody is above having an imperfect system. I’m not, I used to live and tell myself, Chris, you’re the example. There’s no way you can make a mistake? No, no experts make mistakes, I will be lying. Why would I put up such a facade? That’s not true, right? That no system is perfect. Now, if I was spending my time, all the time building my system, there’s a closer chance to it. But as you grow and scale, you got different Pete, you have to bring people and you have to build out that implementation infrastructure. And let me tell you this for all of my automation builders who are growing into the founder, and the true founders and CEOs of their company, and realize I need to work on my business study in the business is going to be hard liveness system go. It is there, you thought there was some considerations that you are leaving alone, just because, you know, hey, I know, these are possibilities, but I’m just focused on that. They grow when someone else is doing it, because you may have to simplify the scope or simplify the operations, so that they can build their confidence in executing your marketing. So you this is, this is a skill, trying not to do it all is a skill that you have to learn and pick up. Because it’s required as you grow. It is required as you grow. And what we were talking about is, if if you’re gonna reach out to an expert in the space, please do it respectfully, right? Because if you’re going to bring up something basic and simple.

Chris Davis 23:10
And think that that’s going to catch my attention. No, any, anybody on any given day could go to my website can look, read an email, find a typo, go to a website, find a broken link, I can do it to your to your website to that that’s not ammunition for you to say, hey, something’s broke, want to hire me to fix it? No, that’s just the mere nature of digital marketing. Now, do not get me wrong, do not get me wrong. Sometimes you go to some people’s website, and you see that they’re making like such a large mistake. You can’t not say something is like, Hold on, I just You don’t even have to hire me. That’s different. That’s that’s different. Right? That’s constructive criticism, I will say, but a critic is someone who’s like, Oh, you’re not doing this, right? You’re not doing this right, in order to either pump themselves up, or to sell their service to you. Right? Again, this is the other side. So I’m not going to tell you, hey, look, don’t try to do it all in automation. And then in there, because when you don’t try to do it all, and then you start getting emails from people, you’re like, oh, shoot, I need to do more, you may be tempted. I have for the longest.

Chris Davis 24:22
One consideration that I’ve always left off the table is what to do when someone responds to an email. And the reason being is because there’s no way to really know the nature of a response. And you don’t know if that response is somebody asking a question, somebody’s raising an issue, or somebody’s actually responding to an email. So it’s very tricky to do any automation based off a response. I just felt like doing something like that wouldn’t be worth the trouble or the time let me say wouldn’t be worth the time to figure it out what you get as a result of it. So I just say You know what, even though I asked people to reply in my emails, I’m not going to stop their sequence or journey through the emails based on their reply because it’s just too random. Now, this is me going into it fully aware that this is a use case, somebody can respond and still get email communication. And there have been some times where I haven’t felt comfortable with it. Right? If somebody has responded, I’m just like, You know what, I’m going to manually go in here and turn off, I’m going to manually go in here and turn off the feature emails. And I can’t, the only time that’s worked well for me is if they’re in a sales cycle, not a lead cycle, not where I’m just trying to get them to take a next step. But when I’ve actually had like, a sales call with them, or they’ve had a sales call with somebody on my team, and they’re in the decision making process, absolutely, I want to isolate them. But besides that, you know, it’s just kind of like, you, you, you know, you’re gonna get automated emails from me, right? Where we fall in, I’m not writing all my emails up, cats out the bag, or rabbits out that whatever the whatever this was saying goes, right. So if you were, if someone were to approach me and say, hey, look, I responded, but you keep sending me these emails. First off, of course, my support team will reach out to them. Or if I reached out to him, it would just kind of what I love doing in my responses, letting people know where they’re at in the automation, like, oh, look, yeah, you’re right here. And based on the information, this is, you know, whatever. So, that being said, if somebody was, if you really wanted to get my business, what would you have to do? You’d have to prove to me, if somebody says, hey, look, your follow up, you should really change your call to action in your emails, Chris? Okay, who are you, then I go to your website check you out, you would have to at least have done something respectable to me, for me to even entertain the idea of bringing you on to do anything for me. Write me I’ve scaled businesses to millions, if you haven’t scaled a business to 1000s don’t critique my marketing and say, hey, look, what I can do this for you, you see those millions you made, I can make you 1000s doesn’t even sound right, right. But lo and behold, this will happen, this will happen to you. In fact, it may be happening to you right now. This is one of the top things that happens to me over the years. And again, it makes sense because this is one of the main things that I was doing. I was opting into people’s lists, trying to get their attention by critiquing their marketing. And it’s not an achievement, do not give yourself a false positive thinking that you’re smart, or that you’re further than you are because you can critique and see holes in someone else’s marketing. Mess, like looking through a window and seeing a dirty room who can’t not see it. It’s a window, it’s not a door, like I can see straight through it and see the clothes on the floor. Do I applaud your vision, know what vide you’ve done, you’ve done nothing special, right? But this is what you’re going to have to balance out. When you go forth online and say, Look, I’m putting my marketing on display, people aren’t gonna be able to see everything that I’m doing. And it’s okay. It’s okay. If somebody finds a typo, or points out a link, click and says, Hey, look, I can fix this for you gonna cost you that comes with the territory, everybody. So at the end of the day, why did what Chris Why are you saying all of this? Because one is the term I never heard the term imposter syndrome until I started working at Active Campaign. And it kind of was like everywhere within the company. I was like, What is this word, because I don’t feel like I’ve ever navigated under that premise. But once I heard it, recency bias, I see it all the time. Now, people think they have to be bigger and better than what they really are. And I lead transparently that listen, you can find flaws in my marketing funnel, you can find things that I can improve on. That’s not the green light for you to pitch your services.

Chris Davis 29:24
Right. So for the marketer that’s doing it, you might want to stop, and then for the business owner, that’s looking for a marketer to do it, to do their marketing. Just don’t think that everything every possible outcome is going to be adhere to with one customer journey. That’s not the goal. So why am I recording this expectation setting on both sides? Right expectation setting on both sides to understand what it really looks like in terms of decision making. Anytime you see a profitable funnel, a profitable marketing process online, there’s all kinds of considerations that were left off the table or on the table, I should say, just left there, hey, look, I know these are all possibilities. I’m going to do it just I can’t, it’d be, it’d be too hard to track and trace. And it takes an experience. My last story, I was just working with a startup and ecommerce and there was so much opportunity, so much opportunity on the table me, man, can we segment by category? Maybe we should a segment by amount purchase? What about order amount of orders? Just all of this right? And what do I have to do as as the expert I come in and make an executive decision, and in that that’s the executive decision. It’s like the opportunity costs, right? When you say yes to one thing, you’re saying no to all these other things, you just have to be okay with that. Right, and move forward confidently, and have thick skin, when maybe the opportunity or the path that you took wasn’t the most profitable, okay? That’s why marketers have to shift and adjust. And always measure and optimize, right? If there’s something in your funnel, and it’s getting a lot of replies. Another case in point was, I was using a particular auto responder, they shall remain nameless, I’m not going to shame on publicly, I did shame on privately in my community. By the way, if you’re not part of the community, we do a private podcast, monthly office hours, all of that, where I get to speak freely, if you want to know about these companies, and you know that I’m talking about I named drop without hesitation. So anyways, this company messed up my autoresponders. They’re always messing up my auto responders, and it’s always their fault. It literally is always their fault. I log in and something’s wrong. And I didn’t touch anything in there. But how did I get there is that people kept emailing me saying, Hey, Chris, something’s wrong, something’s wrong, something’s wrong. So where there’s smoke, there’s often fire, and that led me to go in. So with that being said, you don’t want to ignore the critics because some of them are not critiquing you, in a sense to make them feel better, or puff their chest up, or even try to pitch their services. Some people are critiquing, because they find value in what you’re doing. And they want to keep receiving it in the case that I had. They weren’t getting the emails anymore. They’re like, where are they, we need these emails, that I will respond to that all day. Right? So you have to you just have to be ready. I guess this is like a readiness podcast episode, you just have to be ready for all of the outcomes that you can conceive that I mentioned on this podcast, and all of them that you can’t, and just know, you’re you’re making. Sometimes we’re hard on ourselves. And sometimes we just have to pat ourselves on the back and say, I’m doing the best right now, with what I know right now. Right? It’s okay to say that I’m doing the best right now, with what I know right now. And just be confident. And knowing that that the version you’re deploying, it’s always going to have holes, it’s always going to have room for improvement. And there’s always going to be somebody poking holes and making fun of them. Right? That that’s just the nature, right? It’s, it will always be the case. And maybe that’s what’s intimidating with digital marketing to some people. But again, I just want to encourage you, and give you insight on the process, it’s okay, at the end of the day, look at your results. If your results are great. There, you can always improve and make them greater. But don’t lose any sleep over it. Don’t lose any sleep over trying to do it all. And don’t lose any sleep over not doing all in somebody’s pointing out the fact that you’re not doing it all. It takes a measured, experienced approach to do this online marketing thing the right way. And my hope is that after listening to this episode, you give yourself that much more leeway, that much more freedom to be imperfect, but profitable. And on the flip side,

Chris Davis 34:12
hopefully it gives you that maybe it makes you pause. And actually, if you’re going to be a critique, do it wholeheartedly, right? Don’t do it to try to pitch services or sell anything like that, but do it to actually help in aid. It will go a long way. And we’re all here to help one another. All right. So hopefully, hopefully that lands well with you all and just know, I’m probably is a messed up thing to say and do what I would do it. I’m probably on your list marketer, probably on your list under my fictitious email and just rest assured knowing I’m silently critiquing and judging all the holes in your marketing funnel, but it’s okay. It’s okay. because my expectation of you is not perfection, and it just helps me appreciate your humanity and mortality in marketing that much more. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of The all systems go podcast. If you enjoyed it, make sure that you’re subscribed at the time of recording the all systems go podcast is free to subscribe to, and it can be found in Apple podcast, Google podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts new episodes are released every Thursday, so make sure you’re subscribed so that you don’t miss out and while you’re at it, please leave us a five star rating and review to show some love but also to help future listeners more easily find the podcast so they can experience the value of goodness as well. We’ve compiled all resources mentioned on the podcast, as well as other resources that are extremely valuable and effective at helping you grow your marketing automation skills quickly. And you can access them all at allsystemsgopodcast.com Thanks again for listening. And until next time, I see you online. Automate responsibly my friends