Leadership and Team Building Strategies for Scale feat. Ashley Lundquist

Narrator 0:00
You’re listening to the all systems go podcast, the show that teaches you everything you need to know to put your business on autopilot. Learn how to deploy automated marketing and sell systems in your business the right way with your host, the professor of automation himself and founder of automation bridge, Chris Davis.

Chris Davis 0:32
Welcome everybody to another episode of The all systems go podcast. I’m your host, Chris L. Davis, and I, I have the pleasure now for those of you who have been listening to the podcast, you knew you heard my episode with Tanya, and how I was able to reconnect with somebody that I met back at LeadPages. And then, prior to that, we had Ryan, on the on the podcast, we have Bob and we’ve we’ve had a bunch of Lead Pages alumni. And today’s episode is no different.

Chris Davis 1:11
It’s something to be said when you meet good people. When you come across good people make sure that you stay connected. And that’s not only the topic of today’s podcast, and how to find and take care of people. But a good person that I recently reconnected and found is Ashley Lundqvist. Now, Ashley is a data driven, human centric leader has 15 years of experience, building and scaling executive teams, talent strategies, and people operation departments in the VC and private equity space. She’s experienced growth from seed to exit set on multiple executive leadership teams, and led global scaling initiatives to support valuations. Watch this. In the billions. That’s a B everybody. I didn’t say man. That’s the that’s the beat. So Ashley found it thrive talent to pursue her passion for helping growth oriented businesses build and retain healthy happy teams that can scale both revenue and culture. Do you all see that? You see why? I have Ashley on the podcast today and why I’m so excited. So Ashley, Ashley, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing?

Ashley Lundquist 2:42
I’m well thank you for that intro. I really kind of want to hire you to do a voice. So when you say it like that, I’m like, yeah.

Chris Davis 2:54
You know that that happens to me sometimes. If somebody like puts something like little extra into my bio, I’m kind of like looking around like, Wait a minute. It sounded like me in the beginning. But hold on. Did I achieve all of it? Okay.

Ashley Lundquist 3:13
Be here with you. We go way back. And, you know, I really value what you said about staying connected to good people, for many reasons. And you were one of the absolute best people. So thanks for having me here to chat.

Chris Davis 3:24
Yes, Ashley, I so I want to I want to start off by by giving some insight everyone on how I got to experience Ashley. Now I was working at Lee pages. So you know, it’s just the day to day and it’s like, oh, yeah, she’s really nice. She really knows what she’s doing. Now that was from afar, but it came contextual for me when it was time for me to leave. And I you know, we did it the right way put in my two weeks and everything. And I have to say that there are times where that two week timeframe can can really go left. I mean, you could feel isolated cold. You can may feel like people have been vindictive I know at previous jobs in the corporate world is kind of like, oh, you’re leaving, you’re dead to me. Like there’s all types of strange things that happen. And Ashley, you handled it in such a way that I had never experienced that. In fact, I had just I don’t know if I told you this actually, I just come off the tail end of a person in HR treating me just like the total opposite. I felt. I felt abused. Honestly. That’s what it felt like leaving. So I was pre conditioned that that was how I was going to be so I was like, bracing for it. And it never came. Never came and there’s a few times you reached out like just a pure reach out like hey look, Lee Hey, just head off person to person, how are you? And that was so different. That was just, it took me a while to receive it as genuine as you were giving it. But I think that’s the moment where you went from, hey, I work with her to wait a minute, she’s somebody on another level, let me stay connected. Because if she made me feel like this, that means wherever she goes, wherever she stays, whatever she does, she has the ability to provide that feeling for people. And today, we’re really, we really are actually struggling with connecting, you know, I love technology. But it’s something that we’re all figuring out as a nation as a as a world how to still stay connected in this technology era. So I want to give you the floor here. And today’s topic, if I haven’t said, I know, I talked about people on the top, at the top of this. But in Ashley’s bio, we talked about how she scaled how she’s helped these companies scale all by focusing on people all by focusing on people. So Ashley, tell me this. When was it in your career? Whether it was prior to you being a professional art during a particular time? Have you been a professional? Did you really start to understand that people are the key? And that’s where you want it to focus?

Ashley Lundquist 6:25
Oh, that’s a good question. Um, so it started off sideways for me. So actually, well, I can take it even farther back. I’m growing up, my dad had issues with employment, he had been laid off things of that nature. So I got really exciting job postings and, and recruiting and finding jobs. And that kind of sparked my interest of seeing and the very personal side, something in my family, like how is the human impacted by this versus this exciting, like hunt of finding a job. So that was very early on, but um, childhood level, in college, I started off in the nursing program, and that wasn’t doing it for me. And then I went into an urban education program. And that wasn’t quite fulfilling it. And I realized that that that core denominator, there was the human element, it was people. And it’s when I merged that with this mindset that I really got excited and started to have the wheels start to turn and see what was going on there. But I, like most humans entered the workforce. And, you know, it’s, I don’t, I don’t know how to articulate it exactly. So I’ll kind of give you word vomit. But it’s like you’re stepping into this arena, where you see how the games played, you see how to win, and you’ve kind of got to fall in line. That’s the perception, at least from my experience is somebody early on in their career, and you’re like, oh, this doesn’t feel right. But like, that’s how you get there. Okay, let’s hustle. And I actually had somebody influenced me, relatively mid mid career, I would say, Tracy Simmons from LeadPages, who, who really helped me completely open my heart in the workplace. And that’s a dirty word, right? A lot of us are taught. And I think that is because the perception of danger of like, oh my gosh, if you do have feelings involved, if you do involve humanity, if you do recognize that these are humans, and you have to treat them different, you can’t follow these, like this business code of ethics. That’s like, you know, don’t cry at work, put your game face on, don’t talk about your personal life. Which is sad, because I think a lot of us grew up in that space. And I do think that there, you know, there’s a fine line still, right. But at the end of the day, we’re all humans, we’re all bringing our, our stuff to work, whether we want to admit it or not. Even if compartmentalizing, there are pieces of you, there are parts of you that are going to show up. And when you’re in high stress environments, things are going to fly around crazy. So how do you create an environment where we can support that and we can make it a safe place, and we can recognize the humanity that truly is business? So it’s, um, it makes me giggle when you talk about having, you know, a good experience with an HR person when it’s like, oh, man, like, irony that that sticks out to you is so sad.

Chris Davis 9:22
Yes, yes. And I have to say this. It’s important what you mentioned with people being able to bring their whole self, you know, to work and be human. There. There’s three things I want to say. One is, the statement of this is it’s not personal. It’s business is one of the most abused, overused and misused statements, because people use it so lazily to just dismiss the human element in business when you’re doing transaction with humans. That’s one and then two. is where where Ashley? Did did we pick up this thing that emotions are the enemy of success and progress in a workplace? You know, like, I’ve led teams. It’s crazy, because professionally I’ve led more women teams then mixed our men’s teams. And that has never been an issue. Anytime a female has cried to me, I’ve never felt weird. I’ve never felt like up, suck it up. You know, I’ve always embraced it. And I know that’s not the norm. But I want to highlight we mentioned Tracy, so everybody Tracy is the co founder of LeadPages. She headed the operations and people side of LeadPages amazing leader. And I want to give give a shout out. Because as you’re talking, I remember something there was a time at the time when I was at LeadPages. For Lando Castile had been murdered. And you it was polarizing. I had friends while it was taking place. Like I was watching it live real. I was like, what’s on his shirt? I thought it was ketchup. And I was like, oh, wait a minute. So that is traumatic. And I didn’t even realize it. So it happens. And you just you’re it doesn’t settle well, and he tried to go to sleep and you wake up and you try to be present the next day. Now it was a remote day, actually. So it was a little easier to be present. Because I didn’t have to be in front of people to snap. And look at what happened. Look at what happened. Tracy called me up individually and said, Chris, how are you feeling today? Again, Ashley, I didn’t know how to respond. I’m not used to people, like checking in on me personally, specially like in leadership like that. Not not that Tracy walked around, like I am the co founder. She was very personable, you would never know who she was. Right? Just walk at the leaf pages. And she called me up and I didn’t know what she was talking about. Same thing that did I tell him I was sick, or my mind is trying to figure out like what’s going on? And she was like, you know about the news yesterday, and, and I was like, Whoa, she’s, she’s sympathetic to the plight that I may be going through that. I didn’t even give myself permission to feel. And Tracy called me and told me if I need to take the day off, whatever time you need. That impacted me so much. I was like, Whoa, where does this happen? I was not expecting it. So I had to say that for Tracy and give her a shout out. She probably never knew how much it impacted me. But absolutely, absolutely. So so let me let me keep on to the people train. How is it possible now, I am the marketing automation, Professor, expert, and you know, all of that good stuff. I’ve seen what automated marketing can do for a company. I’ve seen it scale. I know the mechanics. Oftentimes, when we’re online in this space, we hear funnel this and hack that and advertise this, you’re putting into perspective, hey, the properly managed team will help you scale too. So help help the SAS startup founder help the growing team entrepreneur turning into the small business owner with payroll that they didn’t anticipate in the beginning. How does properly managing or building I should say building the team and managing? How does that scale the company?

Ashley Lundquist 13:36
Sure, sure, that’s a great question. And I think, you know, at the center of it all, you can have the most amazing product in the world. And for the most part, I’m sure there’s a few caveats without people, you’re not going to be able to scale that. And so really focusing in that, you know, I have to get the right people in place and I need to treat them with like, they’re, they’re an asset, they’re again, they’re not just these parts of a machine that I can you know, set it and forget it you have to continue to to really nurture them like you nurture anything and I think that’s something that’s interesting to me I have a lot of interest in you know, just the the energetics not gender specific that we bring into the workplace. And something that I think has been missing is this feminine energy. So again, not gender specific, but we’ve got a lot of hard building structural repeatability in which is amazing. Yes, that’s amazing. And you need to bring that feminine flow in which is nurturing which is humanity, which is creation. And I think what you’ll find is that when you can prioritize taking care of your humans you unlock a level of creativity you unlock a, an automation to say of of skills Those that were things just come out and they replicate and they duplicate and people aren’t going out, you get so much more out of it. And you’re seeing new ideas, new innovation that you never thought was possible because you have created a safe place for your team. And I think that’s really what it comes down to is, what is a safe place for your team look like? How do you build that with your culture in a way that resonates with you. And I know, you know, at a core, a core fundamental level, a safe place is making sure everybody feels included and belongs the way Tracy reached out to you. Because she saw you she saw what was going on in that moment and said, Hey, maybe there’s something I should call out to let Chris know, I see him here that he belongs here. And I his his feelings are included in my day today. So there’s that I think at a at a very practical level, educating yourself as a leader, what is figuring out what does being a leader mean to you? And what are your values as a leader? So there’s a book that I really I recommend, personally, radical candor, I think is fantastic, because it brings together the importance of, you know, having a safe environment doesn’t mean it’s rainbows and butterflies all the time. You know, you think about a family dynamic, let’s say for those of you that have kids or siblings or people that feel like family, you know, when you’re going through tough stuff, you don’t just brush it off and play nice all the time, you’re going to tell them, hey, this, this hurt my feelings or this needs to be corrected, or this could be done better. But how do you do that? In a way? How do you develop that? That safety again, with your team members, that you’re building them up enough that they trust you that they feel seen that they’re willing to take that feedback, because they know it’s coming from a place that’s going to improve the business and improve them? Because contrary to what so many believe, you know, businesses personal go to accompany ask any of those people is their job. First of all, yeah, that’s super personal. Like, it impacts my my well being my, my self worth, you know, how I take care of my family, like, it’s the closest thing we have.

Chris Davis 17:08
Absolutely. And I just think that and I have to give, I have to give my wife a shout out to because she is a very passionate person about healing and reconciliation. And that’s just her gifting. She just she exists that people would live in harmony, you know, with one another. And to do so it requires, you know, therapy, counseling, things of that nature. And what I found with me personally, as a leader is the more help that I got for myself, the more personal growth emotional growth that I I, myself received, I was able to give in a greater capacity. Yeah, I was able to see people as people. And one of the things that I always say is concerned before correction, right? Like something may be going on, somebody sent the wrong email, or maybe something is their quality of output is slipping. It’s so easy, Ashley, to go and say, Hey, you’re you did this wrong, this isn’t that. But time has shown me, hey, go check in with them first expressed some concern. They may be dealing with something heavy, and they don’t want to just bring it to you. But if you ask perhaps they’ll share it. Or if you’re in a leadership position, and you don’t you haven’t garnered that trust since somebody else to go and say, Hey, can you go check on someone? So before you go into the A, you did this wrong, you did this, but it comes from an a higher level of emotional IQ?

Ashley Lundquist 18:42
Yeah. 100%. And I think my perspective is, you know, again, going back to being a good leader, in order to be a good leader, you have to truly see your people in order to truly see your people your stuff can’t be getting in the way, otherwise, you’re gonna see your what story is this telling me? How am I getting worked up, you have to be that calm to go in and help your team? And you know, I don’t think it’s interesting because when we talk about the softer side of business, that you know, humanity, this place, that the working on yourself as an individual, so you can be a better leader. That’s not mutually exclusive with results. You know, these metrics don’t matter if your people are happy, you know, that’s, that’s a piece of the puzzle that we’re missing. Because then when you have clearly defined goals, when you have the right people in place, when you’re you have a good communication Foundation was an organization and you have people that are healthy, happy, feel supported, what you’re able to accomplish is going to be tenfold and it it really in my opinion, it doesn’t. It doesn’t take that much extra work to create that safe place. It’s intention that It’s holidays. It’s intention and it’s thought. And outside of that, when people feel that, that that safety, they are the ones who are going to grow, that they’re going to build the teams around that.

Chris Davis 20:11
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I love you highlighting that it’s not mutually exclusive. I can have happy I can focus on people, still be straightforward and direct and honest, still make money, still be revenue focused and hit goals, I can do all of those things, you know, at once, when it comes to people, and team building. And I guess I can just say Team Build when it comes to team building. One of the things that I’m seeing a lot of start, actually entrepreneurs, small businesses and small enterprises altogether, struggling with is finding good talent. Right. Now, I think there is an HR staffing component to this, like how to prospect and all of that. But I really want to talk from as a leader, in Have you seen Ashley, where? Or do you recommend the approach of identifying the skills that you currently have in your business? Like, I know, some people will take have their employees take disc assessments and all types of assessments to identify, Okay, where are our strengths and weaknesses? And then go out in the marketplace and look for the skills and the personality type that complement that? Or what is what is your approach that you’ve seen be most effective when it comes to identifying people to build a healthy team or strong team?

Ashley Lundquist 21:43
Sure, sure. That’s a great question. I don’t know that anybody’s got the perfect answer for this. Yeah. But what I’ve seen and what I what I feel pretty strongly is a good first step. So I think first and foremost, you know, this idea of top talent, good talent, it’s thrown around a lot. And I think that, that it’s it’s it’s subjective. What does good mean? And so I think that’s actually step one is defining what does good talent mean to my organization? What does good talent mean for this team in particular, because, you know, a silly, a silly analogy is, you know, you can go to it’s like going to the grocery store and saying, where’s the food, you’re like, oh, is everywhere. But if you’re cooking, if you get stuck in the meat aisle, yes, that could be good food for you, you know, like. And so I think it’s really important to be able to break down. And this is gonna look different, depending on the size of your company, the size of your team, the the focus of your team, but But what are the behavioral qualities that you need in your organization? So that’s going to impact how decisions are made, how humans are treated, how you persevere through tough times. And so a lot of times that’s tied into core values as an organization, making sure we’re pulling those out. And then simultaneously, you know, what are what are the hard skills? What are the technical skills that we really need from an expertise perspective? And you can do that in different ways you can, you can do a SWOT analysis, you there’s a different personality survey, there’s so many different assessment tools you can use and really zoning in on Hey, for for our phase, where we’re at, at a company, what do we need to identify? And I actually think it just, you know, especially in the earlier stage environment, going into the basics of let’s build a scorecard. Let’s put these these elements and let’s look at my team, let’s figure out what our strengths are, what our gaps are, and what are the must haves. Because it’s really easy to get distracted by shiny objects I had a man Doug Sellars, he was, gosh, this was about a decade ago now at good, he was the CTO there. And I’m probably like, I’ll get the spirit of the story, right. But it’s been a long time. But he essentially was doing a hiring teaching to the organization. And you talked about how they were hiring for their technical team. And this man, I believe it was that had created the logo for for windows had applied. And they were like, Oh, my gosh, this is incredible. We have to get them on board, and they were pulling strings and, you know, super expensive getting it set up. And at the final hour, they were like, wait, what does this have to do with our team and our company and what we, this is so cool, that he’s done this, but we’re applying it to something that’s not relevant, and that ultimately, you know, wouldn’t have worked in the end. So, yeah, it’s that it goes back to basics. And again, taking that, you know, accountability as a leader for identifying what’s needed on my team. Yeah,

Chris Davis 24:59
you know, I, often when I interview people, I try to put myself in the listener seat or in like the seat of the person that we could potentially be talking about. And as a founder, I wrote this down. I really love the analogy of what is good, right? It’s like going into the grocery store and saying, where’s the foods like, well, there’s food everywhere. What type are you looking for? And getting clear, with exactly what you need is your responsibility as the founder. And too often that’s projected onto the talent that you hired, when you didn’t take the time to first identify, Okay, this is what I need. These are the qualities, these are the tasks that like, Get clear on that. Now, to be fair, you don’t always know. And that’s the dynamic nature of this, maybe hiring the right person too early, showed you you weren’t ready. Maybe hiring the wrong person late, you know, is showed you like, Oh, I really do need this type of, of expertise. And you have that balance. And I feel like everybody that comes into your company teaches you something about your company. It’s not always them. This, man, he just fell asleep all the time. Well, you may want to look in the mirror and see if you if there’s alignment, right, like somewhere along the line in the interview process or whatnot. But the when I think about this and say, You know what, get clear, get clear on who you’re looking for. What are some ways I’m an introspective person, actually, so I can sit down in a dark room or driving with no music. And I can think, and I can process. Some people there, a lot of founders are kind of more lofty in their thoughts and possibilities. And next thing, how what are some tips you can give somebody to help them slow down and really define what it is that they are looking for. So when they go into the marketplace and look for a team member or focusing on their team, understanding the qualities that they need, that they may or may not have? How does an individual go through that exercise themselves?

Ashley Lundquist 27:30
Sure, sure. So there’s a couple of things I’d recommend. One, I think, you know, look at what your competitors are doing. Look at what other people in your space have done, hit like poke your network, ask questions, you don’t have to reinvent the wheel, per se, if if you can tap your network and see oh, this worked really well, at so and so doesn’t mean you have to copy it exactly. But if you can figure out what these are, these are, these are key things that that I can pull. That really makes sense. That’s huge. And then you again, depending on the role, right? Because if we’re talking about we’re building the leadership team, from a founding perspective, from from scratch, you know, there’s a different approach versus other other roles in the organization. But I would say if we’re going to talk about broad early hires, what are your biggest pain points right now? What are the things that you need to get accomplished, that either stress you out the most are sucking most of your time, or you have no idea where to start? And like, let’s pull that bucket out first, and break it down that way? Or? I don’t know, let’s say it’s a hire that you’re not familiar with, and you think you need it. That’s another one where I’d say go look on LinkedIn, look at different job descriptions, figure it out, and what they’re saying and what to do, and how can you kind of replicate that as a starting point. Now, if you’ve already got a team built, and you’re trying to figure out okay, how, you know, how does this role fit into the team? That’s where you know, a version of this is probably like the the most old school you’ll hear me talk, but like, just you’re like, Oh, gee, SWOT analysis can be really helpful in figuring out, okay, what are our strengths? What are we good at here? What are the gaps we need to fill? What are the opportunities if we were able to bring in something new and fresh? What would that look like? And build a scorecard around that and then your scorecard isn’t meant to be this, you know, prison that holds you but you can build it if you’re starting to interview candidates, and you’re getting scores where you’re like, Oh, this is high, but it’s still not hitting. That’s going to help you go down the thought process of well, what do I need to add? What do I need to change? What do I you know, what’s missing from this recipe?

Chris Davis 29:53
Yeah, yeah, no, that’s, that’s really good. And let’s say you’ve, you’ve done your due date. gents, you’ve gone through that. And you make a hire. And let’s, let’s talk about more of the entry level, you know, to individual contributor not not necessarily leadership yet. So you’ve made the hire, you’ve got the job description, and everything the person shows up. first few months, great, oh, man, this has never been better. And then you start getting more clarity. Maybe your SWOT analysis wasn’t as thorough as you thought it was. And that person, although good, has a good skill set, the skill set doesn’t necessarily match what you really need. Now that you have new clarity, this is a very hard road, right? Because you, you need this expertise. But you have somebody good, right? So I find that founders often vacillate between, okay, we can just train them and give them the skills. Right? That’s one side, it’s more of the heart lead found. And then other one is more cutthroat like, Well, look, we need to find somebody and find somebody quick, if they can’t do it, let’s get somebody in. I like to be somewhere in the middle, actually, you know, like, there’s, there’s no need to keep somebody in a position that they can’t perform. You know, that’s not fair to them. It’s not fair to the company. But also, if they’re, if they’re showing signs that they can pick up the skillset, give them the opportunity to so in the event where you have to have the conversation, this kind of comes full circle in the beginning that we talked about, I really got to experience you. When it’s time to say, hey, we brought you on, and the capacity in which we’re using you for we weren’t really clear on and now that we are, this is not necessarily a good fit. What are some tips? I mean, the book radical candor gives a lot of ways to have those type of hard conversations. But what are some some pointers, you can tell that founder who’s torn, because they may have an attachment, you know, to the person that they hired, even though they aren’t necessarily the right person for the teams need at that point? Yeah.

Ashley Lundquist 32:14
So I want to like hit my hand on the desk right now. But it will shake the whole screen. Be real with people, like don’t sugarcoat it, don’t be SMB kind. Yes, be compassionate set goals with them. But take accountability, for your misdirection that yes, what I hired you, for you were perfect for that. But I found out, I need something different. And here’s where you’re incredible. And here’s where I’m having a hard time and I might need a different skill set. And then if you think that person might be able to get their goals with them set timelines set check in. Is it hard? Yes. Is it uncomfortable? Absolutely. But whoever said business was gonna be comfortable all the time. That’s not the point of this. And that’s where you, you know, to me the strength of a leader of building that trust and holding that discomfort so that your team member doesn’t, doesn’t have to per se in that same way, is really important. And there’s ways to come to you know, harmonious exits of this isn’t going to work. But I’d really like to help you in your next step. So here’s four weeks of severance or you know, whatever it might be, if you can get ahead of it before it draining you, then you keep time or I’ll keep you on until said date, I’d love to be a reference for you. I can connect you to this person or this organization. But keep it keep be real with people keep it real with people because the more that you you try to beat around the bush it almost and this is an extreme and also a trend to wear but it becomes a form of gaslighting where you’re like, so something’s not right. I feel it’s not right. You know, I feel I’m not safe here. But you’re you’re not telling me so what’s wrong?

Chris Davis 34:01
Yeah. I love that. Because I’ve had the best success in my career as a leader, being honest with people. And I think you don’t actually I think it gets a bad perception. Because a lot of people think that honesty is just the cold hard truth. In this like you can be honest, firm and caring. Yeah, and sensitive. Right?

Ashley Lundquist 34:32
Nobody said you have to be me.

Chris Davis 34:34
Yes. Right. And I think that a lot of times people need language. You know, one way is to say, hey, look, you’re not performing as I expected, and we’re gonna have to bring somebody else in. That’s honest, it is honest. But who is that rough? Oh, man. I don’t know if the person felt that they were valued are cared for and in fact, maybe they think that it’s all their fault. Whereas if it’s something like you You said, hey, look what we hired you for you were perfect for our needs shifted. And there are some things that were indicators of that that I didn’t see. But I see those now. And I understand how this may impact you. So because of that, I want to see, is there anything that in this transitionary time I can do to be of assistance? is have your time working here? Have you seen something that you’re like, Oh, I would like to do that too. Because maybe there’s another area in the business that can benefit, you know, but just open it up and have the conversation. And I one of my one of my longest standing team members to this day, is a result of that is them expressing to me that their time with me has come up, and me opening the door to sit down at the table of truth, and have a conversation, Let them say what they say what they really want to do. And what it ended up being is I found another position in the company. And they’ve been a rock star for years. But to your point, Ashley, did it take extra effort? Yes. Was it easy? No. You know, but was it worth it? Absolutely. Absolutely. So I’ve got a I’ve got one last question. But it’s twofold, actually. And it’s from your experience. When you say I hired you to come in and assess my team. Okay. And you’ve only got a limited time, right? You’ve got maybe an hour to look at their team dynamics and just kind of observe them for a short amount of time. I don’t want to give a specific amount. But you’ve got a day, let’s say right to bring you in. The twofold of this question is, what are some of the things that you’re looking at that would signal this is a strong team? And what are the things that you would look at that would signal there’s danger here, there’s a team building exercises that need to be implemented. So a founder who’s listening to this a business owner who’s listening to this, they may be seeing those things and not being able to label them as Okay, I have a strong team. Okay, there’s some some work to be done. And it could just be a couple, you don’t have to go down a list, but what are some of those strengths that you look for? To identify? Okay, this team is really good. And, you know, on the other side?

Ashley Lundquist 37:26
Yeah, that’s a great question. Um, so off the top of my head, if I was going to think about the things that really stick out as a team that is, is strong, and that is moving in the right direction, you know, putting technical skills aside. Oh, gosh, so number one, I think is self awareness. Are the individuals on the team self aware, because that that opens up a whole new world, if somebody is not self aware, they’re going to be crashing into walls and knocking down everything, the sooner you can have the smartest person, but if they lack self awareness, the structure of that team, or that team is always going to be compromised. On top of that, then layer does accountability. You know, and I think that kind of partners with self awareness is are they accountable for their function? Are they are they constantly passing the buck? Are they making excuses is, you know, every time somebody calls them out, they’re pointing the finger of, you know, well, this, this, and this would have happened, when ultimately it’s like, no, but that comes back to you. Because even if X, Y and Z have happened, because of you know, set other team member, how did you handle that? How did you, you know, own that and shift that so that accountability and ownership is is huge. Communication, of course, we think that’s the core of everything right now. And I think it’s something humans, both in the workplace and out of the workplace are really having to open up our minds in new ways. Because the world is changing, and how we communicate everything from social media, all of a sudden, everybody’s, you know, voice has this loud platform, and there’s so many there’s so many rights, and you know, so many rights and so many wrongs. And so how, how are we communicating, and all in all directions? And then the other one is going to be, again, I keep using this word safety, but what’s the psychological safety on the team? Are people attacked for their thoughts? Are they encouraged to go deeper? Are they validated for their thoughts? I mean, I think those when those, you know, those four elements are kind of a very high level that I would first observe and see how those, those things were interacting.

Chris Davis 39:42
Yeah, yeah. And we could easily say the opposite of those is the indicator of a team that needs improvement. Right. But But what are so I guess I would change that question to what are some of the reasons that people have come to you or that you’ve experienced in the past that they’ve ident FIDE as, hey, I need some help. Is it performance based? Or does it tend to be other other aspects? Oh, I

Ashley Lundquist 40:09
mean, it’s, it’s all over the spectrum, right? So there’s, and again, depending on the role, the organization, the team size, there’s so much that that can can be up play there. But I’m trying to think if I’ve got a good example, there’s so many stories running through my head. Now. But, you know, I think where you really start to run into issues is one, you know, there’s the store where the question that’s constantly asked is, is there such thing as a? What is it a smart asshole or a brilliant asshole? Language? But, you know, and that’s the question, where should we hire someone if we know they’ve got rough edges? Is the brilliance worth it? And you see that on on teams a lot, where it’s like, wow, we’ve got these really smart people, but they don’t know how to play nice. And I think, you know, from my experience, and what I’ve seen and what I’ve coached, the answer is, no, if they’re that brilliant, they’re, they’re gonna figure out how to be self aware, they’re gonna figure out how to develop in those areas, because we are not a siloed world, you have to work well with others. And when we become siloed, innovation stops, creativity stops, we bottlenecks in the organization, and so much of your resources, and so many of your resources as well, resources end up going into how do I fix the problem? How do I, you know, you’re you’re moving all the pieces around inside instead of growing outside? And that’s, that’s really where, you know, I think some of the biggest downfalls are

Chris Davis 41:48
Yeah, yeah, that’s really good. Actually, this has been an amazing time. I, by the way, just so all my listeners know, I have about five more questions. I didn’t mean, the more you talk, the more just keeps coming like, Oh, what about this? What about this, but I’m mindful. And I think that you’ve given us so much to think about I you know, on this podcast, we focus so much on prot defining the process, mapping the process, coupling technology to scale the output. But there’s people in those processes, right? There’s people and we can’t ever have the approach of process over people, where we will sacrifice somebody for the sake. And when you were talking this the last point that you made, I think it what I heard was culture, you know, like, be intentional with the culture that you want to create. And once you’ve created that, be extremely careful who you bring in to that culture. Who cares how great they are on paper, if they’re going to mess up the team dynamics, you have to value that more. You know, you just have to So for my listeners who have been listening, like Oh, my goodness, who is this woman I need? I’d like me to talk to her yesterday. She I feel like she’s the answer to an issue that I didn’t realize I was having. I just knew something was painful. Where can people go and connect with you or find out more about what you do?

Ashley Lundquist 43:21
Absolutely. So you can find me on LinkedIn. My name Ashley Lundqvist, reach out at a connection, send me a note there. Or if you go to my website is to thrive talent.io And you can connect with me there, send an email and I’ll follow up.

Chris Davis 43:40
Great, great. We’ll have both of those links at the in the show notes for today’s episode. Ashley, this has been absolutely amazing. Again, I get to cheat. I get to cheat because I got to reconnect with you. And I got to show my audience somebody that I know personally, this was not like a cold prospecting email. You know, like I know Ashley, personally, I can vouch for everything that she said. So this has been amazing to give the gift of you to my audience. So so thank you for coming on to the podcast.

Ashley Lundquist 44:16
Well, it was my pleasure. So good to see you. You’re amazing. And thanks for putting this all together. Chris.

Chris Davis 44:23
Yes, yes. So So listeners thank you for your time today thank you for your your listenership that I keep saying that word actually I don’t know if it’s real word and I don’t care it seems good right. As the thank you for your expertise and your willingness to come on again, listeners thank you for your listenership and everybody, automate responsibly my friends. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of The all systems go podcast. If you enjoyed it, make sure that you’re subscribed at the time of recording the show. All systems go podcast is free to subscribe to, and it can be found in Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts new episodes are released every Thursday. So make sure you’re subscribed so that you don’t miss out. And while you’re at it, please leave us a five star rating and review to show some love but also to help future listeners more easily find the podcast so they can experience the value of goodness as well. We’ve compiled all resources mentioned on the podcast, as well as other resources that are extremely valuable and effective at helping you grow your marketing automation skills quickly. And you can access them all at all systems go podcast.com Thanks again for listening. And until next time, I see you online. Automate responsibly, my friends

Narrator 0:00
You’re listening to the all systems go podcast, the show that teaches you everything you need to know to put your business on autopilot. Learn how to deploy automated marketing and sell systems in your business the right way with your host, the professor of automation himself and founder of automation bridge, Chris Davis.

Chris Davis 0:32
Welcome everybody to another episode of The all systems go podcast. I’m your host, Chris L. Davis, and I, I have the pleasure now for those of you who have been listening to the podcast, you knew you heard my episode with Tanya, and how I was able to reconnect with somebody that I met back at LeadPages. And then, prior to that, we had Ryan, on the on the podcast, we have Bob and we’ve we’ve had a bunch of Lead Pages alumni. And today’s episode is no different.

Chris Davis 1:11
It’s something to be said when you meet good people. When you come across good people make sure that you stay connected. And that’s not only the topic of today’s podcast, and how to find and take care of people. But a good person that I recently reconnected and found is Ashley Lundqvist. Now, Ashley is a data driven, human centric leader has 15 years of experience, building and scaling executive teams, talent strategies, and people operation departments in the VC and private equity space. She’s experienced growth from seed to exit set on multiple executive leadership teams, and led global scaling initiatives to support valuations. Watch this. In the billions. That’s a B everybody. I didn’t say man. That’s the that’s the beat. So Ashley found it thrive talent to pursue her passion for helping growth oriented businesses build and retain healthy happy teams that can scale both revenue and culture. Do you all see that? You see why? I have Ashley on the podcast today and why I’m so excited. So Ashley, Ashley, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing?

Ashley Lundquist 2:42
I’m well thank you for that intro. I really kind of want to hire you to do a voice. So when you say it like that, I’m like, yeah.

Chris Davis 2:54
You know that that happens to me sometimes. If somebody like puts something like little extra into my bio, I’m kind of like looking around like, Wait a minute. It sounded like me in the beginning. But hold on. Did I achieve all of it? Okay.

Ashley Lundquist 3:13
Be here with you. We go way back. And, you know, I really value what you said about staying connected to good people, for many reasons. And you were one of the absolute best people. So thanks for having me here to chat.

Chris Davis 3:24
Yes, Ashley, I so I want to I want to start off by by giving some insight everyone on how I got to experience Ashley. Now I was working at Lee pages. So you know, it’s just the day to day and it’s like, oh, yeah, she’s really nice. She really knows what she’s doing. Now that was from afar, but it came contextual for me when it was time for me to leave. And I you know, we did it the right way put in my two weeks and everything. And I have to say that there are times where that two week timeframe can can really go left. I mean, you could feel isolated cold. You can may feel like people have been vindictive I know at previous jobs in the corporate world is kind of like, oh, you’re leaving, you’re dead to me. Like there’s all types of strange things that happen. And Ashley, you handled it in such a way that I had never experienced that. In fact, I had just I don’t know if I told you this actually, I just come off the tail end of a person in HR treating me just like the total opposite. I felt. I felt abused. Honestly. That’s what it felt like leaving. So I was pre conditioned that that was how I was going to be so I was like, bracing for it. And it never came. Never came and there’s a few times you reached out like just a pure reach out like hey look, Lee Hey, just head off person to person, how are you? And that was so different. That was just, it took me a while to receive it as genuine as you were giving it. But I think that’s the moment where you went from, hey, I work with her to wait a minute, she’s somebody on another level, let me stay connected. Because if she made me feel like this, that means wherever she goes, wherever she stays, whatever she does, she has the ability to provide that feeling for people. And today, we’re really, we really are actually struggling with connecting, you know, I love technology. But it’s something that we’re all figuring out as a nation as a as a world how to still stay connected in this technology era. So I want to give you the floor here. And today’s topic, if I haven’t said, I know, I talked about people on the top, at the top of this. But in Ashley’s bio, we talked about how she scaled how she’s helped these companies scale all by focusing on people all by focusing on people. So Ashley, tell me this. When was it in your career? Whether it was prior to you being a professional art during a particular time? Have you been a professional? Did you really start to understand that people are the key? And that’s where you want it to focus?

Ashley Lundquist 6:25
Oh, that’s a good question. Um, so it started off sideways for me. So actually, well, I can take it even farther back. I’m growing up, my dad had issues with employment, he had been laid off things of that nature. So I got really exciting job postings and, and recruiting and finding jobs. And that kind of sparked my interest of seeing and the very personal side, something in my family, like how is the human impacted by this versus this exciting, like hunt of finding a job. So that was very early on, but um, childhood level, in college, I started off in the nursing program, and that wasn’t doing it for me. And then I went into an urban education program. And that wasn’t quite fulfilling it. And I realized that that that core denominator, there was the human element, it was people. And it’s when I merged that with this mindset that I really got excited and started to have the wheels start to turn and see what was going on there. But I, like most humans entered the workforce. And, you know, it’s, I don’t, I don’t know how to articulate it exactly. So I’ll kind of give you word vomit. But it’s like you’re stepping into this arena, where you see how the games played, you see how to win, and you’ve kind of got to fall in line. That’s the perception, at least from my experience is somebody early on in their career, and you’re like, oh, this doesn’t feel right. But like, that’s how you get there. Okay, let’s hustle. And I actually had somebody influenced me, relatively mid mid career, I would say, Tracy Simmons from LeadPages, who, who really helped me completely open my heart in the workplace. And that’s a dirty word, right? A lot of us are taught. And I think that is because the perception of danger of like, oh my gosh, if you do have feelings involved, if you do involve humanity, if you do recognize that these are humans, and you have to treat them different, you can’t follow these, like this business code of ethics. That’s like, you know, don’t cry at work, put your game face on, don’t talk about your personal life. Which is sad, because I think a lot of us grew up in that space. And I do think that there, you know, there’s a fine line still, right. But at the end of the day, we’re all humans, we’re all bringing our, our stuff to work, whether we want to admit it or not. Even if compartmentalizing, there are pieces of you, there are parts of you that are going to show up. And when you’re in high stress environments, things are going to fly around crazy. So how do you create an environment where we can support that and we can make it a safe place, and we can recognize the humanity that truly is business? So it’s, um, it makes me giggle when you talk about having, you know, a good experience with an HR person when it’s like, oh, man, like, irony that that sticks out to you is so sad.

Chris Davis 9:22
Yes, yes. And I have to say this. It’s important what you mentioned with people being able to bring their whole self, you know, to work and be human. There. There’s three things I want to say. One is, the statement of this is it’s not personal. It’s business is one of the most abused, overused and misused statements, because people use it so lazily to just dismiss the human element in business when you’re doing transaction with humans. That’s one and then two. is where where Ashley? Did did we pick up this thing that emotions are the enemy of success and progress in a workplace? You know, like, I’ve led teams. It’s crazy, because professionally I’ve led more women teams then mixed our men’s teams. And that has never been an issue. Anytime a female has cried to me, I’ve never felt weird. I’ve never felt like up, suck it up. You know, I’ve always embraced it. And I know that’s not the norm. But I want to highlight we mentioned Tracy, so everybody Tracy is the co founder of LeadPages. She headed the operations and people side of LeadPages amazing leader. And I want to give give a shout out. Because as you’re talking, I remember something there was a time at the time when I was at LeadPages. For Lando Castile had been murdered. And you it was polarizing. I had friends while it was taking place. Like I was watching it live real. I was like, what’s on his shirt? I thought it was ketchup. And I was like, oh, wait a minute. So that is traumatic. And I didn’t even realize it. So it happens. And you just you’re it doesn’t settle well, and he tried to go to sleep and you wake up and you try to be present the next day. Now it was a remote day, actually. So it was a little easier to be present. Because I didn’t have to be in front of people to snap. And look at what happened. Look at what happened. Tracy called me up individually and said, Chris, how are you feeling today? Again, Ashley, I didn’t know how to respond. I’m not used to people, like checking in on me personally, specially like in leadership like that. Not not that Tracy walked around, like I am the co founder. She was very personable, you would never know who she was. Right? Just walk at the leaf pages. And she called me up and I didn’t know what she was talking about. Same thing that did I tell him I was sick, or my mind is trying to figure out like what’s going on? And she was like, you know about the news yesterday, and, and I was like, Whoa, she’s, she’s sympathetic to the plight that I may be going through that. I didn’t even give myself permission to feel. And Tracy called me and told me if I need to take the day off, whatever time you need. That impacted me so much. I was like, Whoa, where does this happen? I was not expecting it. So I had to say that for Tracy and give her a shout out. She probably never knew how much it impacted me. But absolutely, absolutely. So so let me let me keep on to the people train. How is it possible now, I am the marketing automation, Professor, expert, and you know, all of that good stuff. I’ve seen what automated marketing can do for a company. I’ve seen it scale. I know the mechanics. Oftentimes, when we’re online in this space, we hear funnel this and hack that and advertise this, you’re putting into perspective, hey, the properly managed team will help you scale too. So help help the SAS startup founder help the growing team entrepreneur turning into the small business owner with payroll that they didn’t anticipate in the beginning. How does properly managing or building I should say building the team and managing? How does that scale the company?

Ashley Lundquist 13:36
Sure, sure, that’s a great question. And I think, you know, at the center of it all, you can have the most amazing product in the world. And for the most part, I’m sure there’s a few caveats without people, you’re not going to be able to scale that. And so really focusing in that, you know, I have to get the right people in place and I need to treat them with like, they’re, they’re an asset, they’re again, they’re not just these parts of a machine that I can you know, set it and forget it you have to continue to to really nurture them like you nurture anything and I think that’s something that’s interesting to me I have a lot of interest in you know, just the the energetics not gender specific that we bring into the workplace. And something that I think has been missing is this feminine energy. So again, not gender specific, but we’ve got a lot of hard building structural repeatability in which is amazing. Yes, that’s amazing. And you need to bring that feminine flow in which is nurturing which is humanity, which is creation. And I think what you’ll find is that when you can prioritize taking care of your humans you unlock a level of creativity you unlock a, an automation to say of of skills Those that were things just come out and they replicate and they duplicate and people aren’t going out, you get so much more out of it. And you’re seeing new ideas, new innovation that you never thought was possible because you have created a safe place for your team. And I think that’s really what it comes down to is, what is a safe place for your team look like? How do you build that with your culture in a way that resonates with you. And I know, you know, at a core, a core fundamental level, a safe place is making sure everybody feels included and belongs the way Tracy reached out to you. Because she saw you she saw what was going on in that moment and said, Hey, maybe there’s something I should call out to let Chris know, I see him here that he belongs here. And I his his feelings are included in my day today. So there’s that I think at a at a very practical level, educating yourself as a leader, what is figuring out what does being a leader mean to you? And what are your values as a leader? So there’s a book that I really I recommend, personally, radical candor, I think is fantastic, because it brings together the importance of, you know, having a safe environment doesn’t mean it’s rainbows and butterflies all the time. You know, you think about a family dynamic, let’s say for those of you that have kids or siblings or people that feel like family, you know, when you’re going through tough stuff, you don’t just brush it off and play nice all the time, you’re going to tell them, hey, this, this hurt my feelings or this needs to be corrected, or this could be done better. But how do you do that? In a way? How do you develop that? That safety again, with your team members, that you’re building them up enough that they trust you that they feel seen that they’re willing to take that feedback, because they know it’s coming from a place that’s going to improve the business and improve them? Because contrary to what so many believe, you know, businesses personal go to accompany ask any of those people is their job. First of all, yeah, that’s super personal. Like, it impacts my my well being my, my self worth, you know, how I take care of my family, like, it’s the closest thing we have.

Chris Davis 17:08
Absolutely. And I just think that and I have to give, I have to give my wife a shout out to because she is a very passionate person about healing and reconciliation. And that’s just her gifting. She just she exists that people would live in harmony, you know, with one another. And to do so it requires, you know, therapy, counseling, things of that nature. And what I found with me personally, as a leader is the more help that I got for myself, the more personal growth emotional growth that I I, myself received, I was able to give in a greater capacity. Yeah, I was able to see people as people. And one of the things that I always say is concerned before correction, right? Like something may be going on, somebody sent the wrong email, or maybe something is their quality of output is slipping. It’s so easy, Ashley, to go and say, Hey, you’re you did this wrong, this isn’t that. But time has shown me, hey, go check in with them first expressed some concern. They may be dealing with something heavy, and they don’t want to just bring it to you. But if you ask perhaps they’ll share it. Or if you’re in a leadership position, and you don’t you haven’t garnered that trust since somebody else to go and say, Hey, can you go check on someone? So before you go into the A, you did this wrong, you did this, but it comes from an a higher level of emotional IQ?

Ashley Lundquist 18:42
Yeah. 100%. And I think my perspective is, you know, again, going back to being a good leader, in order to be a good leader, you have to truly see your people in order to truly see your people your stuff can’t be getting in the way, otherwise, you’re gonna see your what story is this telling me? How am I getting worked up, you have to be that calm to go in and help your team? And you know, I don’t think it’s interesting because when we talk about the softer side of business, that you know, humanity, this place, that the working on yourself as an individual, so you can be a better leader. That’s not mutually exclusive with results. You know, these metrics don’t matter if your people are happy, you know, that’s, that’s a piece of the puzzle that we’re missing. Because then when you have clearly defined goals, when you have the right people in place, when you’re you have a good communication Foundation was an organization and you have people that are healthy, happy, feel supported, what you’re able to accomplish is going to be tenfold and it it really in my opinion, it doesn’t. It doesn’t take that much extra work to create that safe place. It’s intention that It’s holidays. It’s intention and it’s thought. And outside of that, when people feel that, that that safety, they are the ones who are going to grow, that they’re going to build the teams around that.

Chris Davis 20:11
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I love you highlighting that it’s not mutually exclusive. I can have happy I can focus on people, still be straightforward and direct and honest, still make money, still be revenue focused and hit goals, I can do all of those things, you know, at once, when it comes to people, and team building. And I guess I can just say Team Build when it comes to team building. One of the things that I’m seeing a lot of start, actually entrepreneurs, small businesses and small enterprises altogether, struggling with is finding good talent. Right. Now, I think there is an HR staffing component to this, like how to prospect and all of that. But I really want to talk from as a leader, in Have you seen Ashley, where? Or do you recommend the approach of identifying the skills that you currently have in your business? Like, I know, some people will take have their employees take disc assessments and all types of assessments to identify, Okay, where are our strengths and weaknesses? And then go out in the marketplace and look for the skills and the personality type that complement that? Or what is what is your approach that you’ve seen be most effective when it comes to identifying people to build a healthy team or strong team?

Ashley Lundquist 21:43
Sure, sure. That’s a great question. I don’t know that anybody’s got the perfect answer for this. Yeah. But what I’ve seen and what I what I feel pretty strongly is a good first step. So I think first and foremost, you know, this idea of top talent, good talent, it’s thrown around a lot. And I think that, that it’s it’s it’s subjective. What does good mean? And so I think that’s actually step one is defining what does good talent mean to my organization? What does good talent mean for this team in particular, because, you know, a silly, a silly analogy is, you know, you can go to it’s like going to the grocery store and saying, where’s the food, you’re like, oh, is everywhere. But if you’re cooking, if you get stuck in the meat aisle, yes, that could be good food for you, you know, like. And so I think it’s really important to be able to break down. And this is gonna look different, depending on the size of your company, the size of your team, the the focus of your team, but But what are the behavioral qualities that you need in your organization? So that’s going to impact how decisions are made, how humans are treated, how you persevere through tough times. And so a lot of times that’s tied into core values as an organization, making sure we’re pulling those out. And then simultaneously, you know, what are what are the hard skills? What are the technical skills that we really need from an expertise perspective? And you can do that in different ways you can, you can do a SWOT analysis, you there’s a different personality survey, there’s so many different assessment tools you can use and really zoning in on Hey, for for our phase, where we’re at, at a company, what do we need to identify? And I actually think it just, you know, especially in the earlier stage environment, going into the basics of let’s build a scorecard. Let’s put these these elements and let’s look at my team, let’s figure out what our strengths are, what our gaps are, and what are the must haves. Because it’s really easy to get distracted by shiny objects I had a man Doug Sellars, he was, gosh, this was about a decade ago now at good, he was the CTO there. And I’m probably like, I’ll get the spirit of the story, right. But it’s been a long time. But he essentially was doing a hiring teaching to the organization. And you talked about how they were hiring for their technical team. And this man, I believe it was that had created the logo for for windows had applied. And they were like, Oh, my gosh, this is incredible. We have to get them on board, and they were pulling strings and, you know, super expensive getting it set up. And at the final hour, they were like, wait, what does this have to do with our team and our company and what we, this is so cool, that he’s done this, but we’re applying it to something that’s not relevant, and that ultimately, you know, wouldn’t have worked in the end. So, yeah, it’s that it goes back to basics. And again, taking that, you know, accountability as a leader for identifying what’s needed on my team. Yeah,

Chris Davis 24:59
you know, I, often when I interview people, I try to put myself in the listener seat or in like the seat of the person that we could potentially be talking about. And as a founder, I wrote this down. I really love the analogy of what is good, right? It’s like going into the grocery store and saying, where’s the foods like, well, there’s food everywhere. What type are you looking for? And getting clear, with exactly what you need is your responsibility as the founder. And too often that’s projected onto the talent that you hired, when you didn’t take the time to first identify, Okay, this is what I need. These are the qualities, these are the tasks that like, Get clear on that. Now, to be fair, you don’t always know. And that’s the dynamic nature of this, maybe hiring the right person too early, showed you you weren’t ready. Maybe hiring the wrong person late, you know, is showed you like, Oh, I really do need this type of, of expertise. And you have that balance. And I feel like everybody that comes into your company teaches you something about your company. It’s not always them. This, man, he just fell asleep all the time. Well, you may want to look in the mirror and see if you if there’s alignment, right, like somewhere along the line in the interview process or whatnot. But the when I think about this and say, You know what, get clear, get clear on who you’re looking for. What are some ways I’m an introspective person, actually, so I can sit down in a dark room or driving with no music. And I can think, and I can process. Some people there, a lot of founders are kind of more lofty in their thoughts and possibilities. And next thing, how what are some tips you can give somebody to help them slow down and really define what it is that they are looking for. So when they go into the marketplace and look for a team member or focusing on their team, understanding the qualities that they need, that they may or may not have? How does an individual go through that exercise themselves?

Ashley Lundquist 27:30
Sure, sure. So there’s a couple of things I’d recommend. One, I think, you know, look at what your competitors are doing. Look at what other people in your space have done, hit like poke your network, ask questions, you don’t have to reinvent the wheel, per se, if if you can tap your network and see oh, this worked really well, at so and so doesn’t mean you have to copy it exactly. But if you can figure out what these are, these are, these are key things that that I can pull. That really makes sense. That’s huge. And then you again, depending on the role, right? Because if we’re talking about we’re building the leadership team, from a founding perspective, from from scratch, you know, there’s a different approach versus other other roles in the organization. But I would say if we’re going to talk about broad early hires, what are your biggest pain points right now? What are the things that you need to get accomplished, that either stress you out the most are sucking most of your time, or you have no idea where to start? And like, let’s pull that bucket out first, and break it down that way? Or? I don’t know, let’s say it’s a hire that you’re not familiar with, and you think you need it. That’s another one where I’d say go look on LinkedIn, look at different job descriptions, figure it out, and what they’re saying and what to do, and how can you kind of replicate that as a starting point. Now, if you’ve already got a team built, and you’re trying to figure out okay, how, you know, how does this role fit into the team? That’s where you know, a version of this is probably like the the most old school you’ll hear me talk, but like, just you’re like, Oh, gee, SWOT analysis can be really helpful in figuring out, okay, what are our strengths? What are we good at here? What are the gaps we need to fill? What are the opportunities if we were able to bring in something new and fresh? What would that look like? And build a scorecard around that and then your scorecard isn’t meant to be this, you know, prison that holds you but you can build it if you’re starting to interview candidates, and you’re getting scores where you’re like, Oh, this is high, but it’s still not hitting. That’s going to help you go down the thought process of well, what do I need to add? What do I need to change? What do I you know, what’s missing from this recipe?

Chris Davis 29:53
Yeah, yeah, no, that’s, that’s really good. And let’s say you’ve, you’ve done your due date. gents, you’ve gone through that. And you make a hire. And let’s, let’s talk about more of the entry level, you know, to individual contributor not not necessarily leadership yet. So you’ve made the hire, you’ve got the job description, and everything the person shows up. first few months, great, oh, man, this has never been better. And then you start getting more clarity. Maybe your SWOT analysis wasn’t as thorough as you thought it was. And that person, although good, has a good skill set, the skill set doesn’t necessarily match what you really need. Now that you have new clarity, this is a very hard road, right? Because you, you need this expertise. But you have somebody good, right? So I find that founders often vacillate between, okay, we can just train them and give them the skills. Right? That’s one side, it’s more of the heart lead found. And then other one is more cutthroat like, Well, look, we need to find somebody and find somebody quick, if they can’t do it, let’s get somebody in. I like to be somewhere in the middle, actually, you know, like, there’s, there’s no need to keep somebody in a position that they can’t perform. You know, that’s not fair to them. It’s not fair to the company. But also, if they’re, if they’re showing signs that they can pick up the skillset, give them the opportunity to so in the event where you have to have the conversation, this kind of comes full circle in the beginning that we talked about, I really got to experience you. When it’s time to say, hey, we brought you on, and the capacity in which we’re using you for we weren’t really clear on and now that we are, this is not necessarily a good fit. What are some tips? I mean, the book radical candor gives a lot of ways to have those type of hard conversations. But what are some some pointers, you can tell that founder who’s torn, because they may have an attachment, you know, to the person that they hired, even though they aren’t necessarily the right person for the teams need at that point? Yeah.

Ashley Lundquist 32:14
So I want to like hit my hand on the desk right now. But it will shake the whole screen. Be real with people, like don’t sugarcoat it, don’t be SMB kind. Yes, be compassionate set goals with them. But take accountability, for your misdirection that yes, what I hired you, for you were perfect for that. But I found out, I need something different. And here’s where you’re incredible. And here’s where I’m having a hard time and I might need a different skill set. And then if you think that person might be able to get their goals with them set timelines set check in. Is it hard? Yes. Is it uncomfortable? Absolutely. But whoever said business was gonna be comfortable all the time. That’s not the point of this. And that’s where you, you know, to me the strength of a leader of building that trust and holding that discomfort so that your team member doesn’t, doesn’t have to per se in that same way, is really important. And there’s ways to come to you know, harmonious exits of this isn’t going to work. But I’d really like to help you in your next step. So here’s four weeks of severance or you know, whatever it might be, if you can get ahead of it before it draining you, then you keep time or I’ll keep you on until said date, I’d love to be a reference for you. I can connect you to this person or this organization. But keep it keep be real with people keep it real with people because the more that you you try to beat around the bush it almost and this is an extreme and also a trend to wear but it becomes a form of gaslighting where you’re like, so something’s not right. I feel it’s not right. You know, I feel I’m not safe here. But you’re you’re not telling me so what’s wrong?

Chris Davis 34:01
Yeah. I love that. Because I’ve had the best success in my career as a leader, being honest with people. And I think you don’t actually I think it gets a bad perception. Because a lot of people think that honesty is just the cold hard truth. In this like you can be honest, firm and caring. Yeah, and sensitive. Right?

Ashley Lundquist 34:32
Nobody said you have to be me.

Chris Davis 34:34
Yes. Right. And I think that a lot of times people need language. You know, one way is to say, hey, look, you’re not performing as I expected, and we’re gonna have to bring somebody else in. That’s honest, it is honest. But who is that rough? Oh, man. I don’t know if the person felt that they were valued are cared for and in fact, maybe they think that it’s all their fault. Whereas if it’s something like you You said, hey, look what we hired you for you were perfect for our needs shifted. And there are some things that were indicators of that that I didn’t see. But I see those now. And I understand how this may impact you. So because of that, I want to see, is there anything that in this transitionary time I can do to be of assistance? is have your time working here? Have you seen something that you’re like, Oh, I would like to do that too. Because maybe there’s another area in the business that can benefit, you know, but just open it up and have the conversation. And I one of my one of my longest standing team members to this day, is a result of that is them expressing to me that their time with me has come up, and me opening the door to sit down at the table of truth, and have a conversation, Let them say what they say what they really want to do. And what it ended up being is I found another position in the company. And they’ve been a rock star for years. But to your point, Ashley, did it take extra effort? Yes. Was it easy? No. You know, but was it worth it? Absolutely. Absolutely. So I’ve got a I’ve got one last question. But it’s twofold, actually. And it’s from your experience. When you say I hired you to come in and assess my team. Okay. And you’ve only got a limited time, right? You’ve got maybe an hour to look at their team dynamics and just kind of observe them for a short amount of time. I don’t want to give a specific amount. But you’ve got a day, let’s say right to bring you in. The twofold of this question is, what are some of the things that you’re looking at that would signal this is a strong team? And what are the things that you would look at that would signal there’s danger here, there’s a team building exercises that need to be implemented. So a founder who’s listening to this a business owner who’s listening to this, they may be seeing those things and not being able to label them as Okay, I have a strong team. Okay, there’s some some work to be done. And it could just be a couple, you don’t have to go down a list, but what are some of those strengths that you look for? To identify? Okay, this team is really good. And, you know, on the other side?

Ashley Lundquist 37:26
Yeah, that’s a great question. Um, so off the top of my head, if I was going to think about the things that really stick out as a team that is, is strong, and that is moving in the right direction, you know, putting technical skills aside. Oh, gosh, so number one, I think is self awareness. Are the individuals on the team self aware, because that that opens up a whole new world, if somebody is not self aware, they’re going to be crashing into walls and knocking down everything, the sooner you can have the smartest person, but if they lack self awareness, the structure of that team, or that team is always going to be compromised. On top of that, then layer does accountability. You know, and I think that kind of partners with self awareness is are they accountable for their function? Are they are they constantly passing the buck? Are they making excuses is, you know, every time somebody calls them out, they’re pointing the finger of, you know, well, this, this, and this would have happened, when ultimately it’s like, no, but that comes back to you. Because even if X, Y and Z have happened, because of you know, set other team member, how did you handle that? How did you, you know, own that and shift that so that accountability and ownership is is huge. Communication, of course, we think that’s the core of everything right now. And I think it’s something humans, both in the workplace and out of the workplace are really having to open up our minds in new ways. Because the world is changing, and how we communicate everything from social media, all of a sudden, everybody’s, you know, voice has this loud platform, and there’s so many there’s so many rights, and you know, so many rights and so many wrongs. And so how, how are we communicating, and all in all directions? And then the other one is going to be, again, I keep using this word safety, but what’s the psychological safety on the team? Are people attacked for their thoughts? Are they encouraged to go deeper? Are they validated for their thoughts? I mean, I think those when those, you know, those four elements are kind of a very high level that I would first observe and see how those, those things were interacting.

Chris Davis 39:42
Yeah, yeah. And we could easily say the opposite of those is the indicator of a team that needs improvement. Right. But But what are so I guess I would change that question to what are some of the reasons that people have come to you or that you’ve experienced in the past that they’ve ident FIDE as, hey, I need some help. Is it performance based? Or does it tend to be other other aspects? Oh, I

Ashley Lundquist 40:09
mean, it’s, it’s all over the spectrum, right? So there’s, and again, depending on the role, the organization, the team size, there’s so much that that can can be up play there. But I’m trying to think if I’ve got a good example, there’s so many stories running through my head. Now. But, you know, I think where you really start to run into issues is one, you know, there’s the store where the question that’s constantly asked is, is there such thing as a? What is it a smart asshole or a brilliant asshole? Language? But, you know, and that’s the question, where should we hire someone if we know they’ve got rough edges? Is the brilliance worth it? And you see that on on teams a lot, where it’s like, wow, we’ve got these really smart people, but they don’t know how to play nice. And I think, you know, from my experience, and what I’ve seen and what I’ve coached, the answer is, no, if they’re that brilliant, they’re, they’re gonna figure out how to be self aware, they’re gonna figure out how to develop in those areas, because we are not a siloed world, you have to work well with others. And when we become siloed, innovation stops, creativity stops, we bottlenecks in the organization, and so much of your resources, and so many of your resources as well, resources end up going into how do I fix the problem? How do I, you know, you’re you’re moving all the pieces around inside instead of growing outside? And that’s, that’s really where, you know, I think some of the biggest downfalls are

Chris Davis 41:48
Yeah, yeah, that’s really good. Actually, this has been an amazing time. I, by the way, just so all my listeners know, I have about five more questions. I didn’t mean, the more you talk, the more just keeps coming like, Oh, what about this? What about this, but I’m mindful. And I think that you’ve given us so much to think about I you know, on this podcast, we focus so much on prot defining the process, mapping the process, coupling technology to scale the output. But there’s people in those processes, right? There’s people and we can’t ever have the approach of process over people, where we will sacrifice somebody for the sake. And when you were talking this the last point that you made, I think it what I heard was culture, you know, like, be intentional with the culture that you want to create. And once you’ve created that, be extremely careful who you bring in to that culture. Who cares how great they are on paper, if they’re going to mess up the team dynamics, you have to value that more. You know, you just have to So for my listeners who have been listening, like Oh, my goodness, who is this woman I need? I’d like me to talk to her yesterday. She I feel like she’s the answer to an issue that I didn’t realize I was having. I just knew something was painful. Where can people go and connect with you or find out more about what you do?

Ashley Lundquist 43:21
Absolutely. So you can find me on LinkedIn. My name Ashley Lundqvist, reach out at a connection, send me a note there. Or if you go to my website is to thrive talent.io And you can connect with me there, send an email and I’ll follow up.

Chris Davis 43:40
Great, great. We’ll have both of those links at the in the show notes for today’s episode. Ashley, this has been absolutely amazing. Again, I get to cheat. I get to cheat because I got to reconnect with you. And I got to show my audience somebody that I know personally, this was not like a cold prospecting email. You know, like I know Ashley, personally, I can vouch for everything that she said. So this has been amazing to give the gift of you to my audience. So so thank you for coming on to the podcast.

Ashley Lundquist 44:16
Well, it was my pleasure. So good to see you. You’re amazing. And thanks for putting this all together. Chris.

Chris Davis 44:23
Yes, yes. So So listeners thank you for your time today thank you for your your listenership that I keep saying that word actually I don’t know if it’s real word and I don’t care it seems good right. As the thank you for your expertise and your willingness to come on again, listeners thank you for your listenership and everybody, automate responsibly my friends. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of The all systems go podcast. If you enjoyed it, make sure that you’re subscribed at the time of recording the show. All systems go podcast is free to subscribe to, and it can be found in Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts new episodes are released every Thursday. So make sure you’re subscribed so that you don’t miss out. And while you’re at it, please leave us a five star rating and review to show some love but also to help future listeners more easily find the podcast so they can experience the value of goodness as well. We’ve compiled all resources mentioned on the podcast, as well as other resources that are extremely valuable and effective at helping you grow your marketing automation skills quickly. And you can access them all at all systems go podcast.com Thanks again for listening. And until next time, I see you online. Automate responsibly, my friends