This week, Chris invites on special guest, Dr. Josh Satterlee to discuss building trust with clients through a 4-part apology framework. Josh is a chiropractor that has helped 1000’s of chiropractors understand the importance of communication and the role it plays in relationship building. Tune in to hear Chris and Josh talk through how both medicine and marketing automation worlds require autonomy in communication for ultimate success.
You’re listening to the all systems go podcast, the show that teaches you everything you need to know to put your business on autopilot. Learn how to deploy automated marketing and sell systems in your business the right way with your host, the professor of automation himself and founder of automation bridge, Chris Davis.
Chris Davis 0:31
Alright, welcome to another episode of The all systems go podcast, where we invite startup founders, digital marketers, and business owners in general, that are using technology using technology, software, and strategies to grow their business by way of automated marketing and sales strategy. I’m your host, Chris L. Davis, the founder of automation bridge. And today’s guest is Dr. Dr. Josh Satterlee, from Las Vegas, Nevada, Josh is a chiropractor that’s helped 1000s of chiropractors understand the importance of communication, and the role it plays in relationship building. Josh, welcome to the podcast How you doing?
Josh Satterlee 1:25
Chris, it’s an honor to be here. It’s a pleasure. I’m very excited about melding these two worlds together, you are the guy that can make anything happen technologically. And I’m lucky enough to you know, in my in the chiropractic world, all medicine, we have a ton of access to research that we know is very accurate was done very well. And in that I’ve been lately looking at communication and the role of communication and trust building with patients. And I just want to talk about how I think that can affect people who are building automations communication strategies, emails, text messaging, all this marketing stuff. Because if you don’t have trust in the doctor’s office, you can’t make them you can’t get patients to do anything. And if you don’t have trust in the world of marketing, automation and whatnot, the needle never moves. Right? So a melding of the two and, man, I’ve listened to your podcast a bunch of times, and I’m like, this Chris guy, not just, you know, he’s not just good looking. He’s actually pretty darn smart.
Chris Davis 2:27
Appreciate that Josh. Appreciate that. And I must say, when we talk about trust, as as important as it is, in marketing, what is one of the cornerstones right the the light and trust factor are the cornerstones of marketing, effective marketing, that is, trust in a doctor is on another level, right? Like this is this could be life or death, if you trust the information that your doctor is giving you to literally save your life. So so don’t add any in any means one on one to overshadow that. And I want to also give you the floor really quick, Josh, what tell us about your your trajectory into the practice that you’re in now, what led up to it, were there signs in the past that show that you really paid a little more special attention to building trust with their stories that you could think of like, you know, and that was the first time I realized trust is important. What’s the what? What’s the story?
Josh Satterlee 3:25
I will tell you. I think one of the advantages of being in medicine. And one of the disadvantages is you’re dealing with people and in the world of chiropractic, if you do the wrong thing to people, they hurt worse the next day or that time in their office in your office, right. So, you know, I’m sure that you’ve had clients where it didn’t work out, but they weren’t crying and unable to move and all that and I’ve seen it in my office, I’ve done it, I’ve screwed people up. And I work everyday not to ever do that again. You know, that emotional load of like, so I had a friend come in I remember this November 1 of like, 2010 And the reason I know it was November 1 Is the night before was Halloween, right? October 31. And she had dressed up as a show girl. And you know it’s Las Vegas dressed up as a showgirl. I mean, this is like perfect, right? And well, I guess I’m like carrying you know, the big like feather thing. They were on their hat that big. Yeah, I don’t know what to call it. But like headpiece, well, after carrying that around all night, and you know, walking from party to party, she woke up the next morning and couldn’t move her neck. I mean, it was just totally jacked. So I start doing everything that I know to work on her you know and working on the muscles and adjusting her crack and pop and she stands up and whatever movement she walked in with had now reduced by 50%. And I’m like, okay, that’s not supposed to happen. So I’m like well lay back down here and I work even harder, right? I’m digging and I’m pushing. Stretching. I’m you know, her neck is turning the color of a tomato and I’m like, she stands up. And now a single tear just rolls down her eye on her cheek. And they go, how you doing? And she does what a lot of people do, which is she said, I’m fine. Yeah, it’s okay. Now at that point, I should have just cut my losses and said, Hey, I’m not helping you. But Chris, you got to remember, I’m dumb. So I decided to go third round with this woman, and just totally Gork her and she was a good friend of mine. And that memory sticks with me every day whenever I go to conference. I think about that woman. We can just call her, Joni for now because she looked like Joni from Joanie. Joanie Loves Chachi. But every time I think, like, I gotta get more accurate because of that. I don’t want another Joanie, you know, I gotta, I gotta learn this skill. Because I don’t want another Joni and I all those things. And that’s what helped me dive into this communication thing. Because the other side of the coin is, strangely, I can do the right thing for you, as a patient, so if you come in with an injury, I can do the absolute right thing. But if you don’t believe that it’s the right thing. It may not be nearly as effective Heck, it can be totally not effective. And I can tell you like no man, we hit all the checkboxes, this is exactly what you need. But if you think you need something else, and I don’t touch on that, your belief system is going to be a whole lot lower. So I really been studying it because of those experiences. And of those times that I was not, you know, I, I don’t want to, like diminish my ability to get referrals from your podcast, but I have improved my skills, you know, but there were some dark days, man, you had that when you got into like, your business opening, but screwing up a client’s website or, or their automations, or the automations run wild and it’slike dang. So
Chris Davis 6:52
I’d have to say the equivalent, I won’t say the clients name or even the time because we all make mistakes, even in our expert, expert areas, or expert years. But there’s no worse feeling for me, then recommending the wrong software. And this took me so long, I would go into these engagements. And I would recommend the software that I was familiar with the software that I could use, and I could make it do all of these things. And then when I’m not touching it, when I’m not doing it, they have no clue how to use it, or, or I’ve recommended something that I hadn’t tried. And it excuse me, and it looked really good. So I was like, Oh, this will work. And the results of the software or lack thereof, I should say, become my reputation. Software didn’t work. And Chris doesn’t know what he’s doing. And that has been probably the hardest lesson earlier in my career. Which is why now I sit down, I don’t just you won’t let you won’t catch me mentioning any name of software until I’ve got a great understanding of your business model, your strategy and some form of performance that your marketing is currently doing. Because it’s it’s a form of malpractice in my industry. I love it. Never prescribe technology or software before strategy. Just don’t do it. You know,
Josh Satterlee 8:19
it’s funny, you mentioned that, because one of the things that we’ve discovered after looking at all the research in the medicine is the most successful patient doctor relationship is when there is a discussion of autonomy. And autonomy is what are you willing to do to get yourself better? And that can go everywhere from like, like so you think about like, I don’t know, if you’ve ever dealt with a family member with cancer, right? There are people that get cancer and they’re like, Hey, listen, I’ll eat any green juice, I’ll run five miles a day, I’ll do whatever. I just don’t want to go through chemotherapy, right. And then there’s the opposite side. They say, Hey, man, you can get me as close to death with chemotherapy as I need to be. But I won’t do other things, right? And having that conversation. So I think about like, you know, the olden days. So I’m a been an Infusionsoft user or keep user for, man. It’s got to be like seven years now. Wow. And the olden days of what you had to do before like Zapier existed, right? Oh, goodness. Yeah, but it but your willingness, Chris’s willingness to do active parts of that are much higher, right? It’s like, Hey, Chris, what are you willing to do for your business? Could you log in every day and do these four things and just run these save searches? And you’re like, Absolutely, that’s not a problem. But then I would imagine you go to one of your clients and you go, Hey, would you log in every day? If you’re, I don’t know, an attorney’s office, right? Would you log in every day for an hour and go through these save searches? Well, as soon as you say save searches, Their eyes get big. They go quiet, you know? And they’re like, Well, what? And yeah, they’re thinking in their mind, where am I going to find an hour a day? I got to deal with clients, I’m going to get, you know, go to court, I got to do XY and Z. And that, you know, and it’s like, okay, well, let’s at least have this conversation about autonomy. What are you willing to do? What am I willing to do? And how do we set up that plan. And that’s the whole reason I want to be on your podcast is, the only advantage I have in this world is something called PubMed. And PubMed is just this clearinghouse of all the research that’s been done in the medical industry, right? Doesn’t matter if you’re looking at diabetes, or foot health or anything. All this research was done a really well, right. And so we can rely on it. It’s not, it’s not internet marketing, research, you know, your 111 People prefer this brand of software. It’s like, yeah, that’s much. So it’s done really well. And also, it, it gives us insight to what people want. And that autonomy thing, I think expands to every aspect of our lives, like, what are you willing to do in a marriage? What are you willing to do at the gym? What are you willing to do with your kids, but really applies in this sense of marketing, automation? And, and just in general, I love the fact that, by the way, that you’re not just marketing automation, but automation in general, we got to have that belief of what are you willing to do, because there’s some cats out there that are willing to do anything and everything and work, you know, grind it out for 11 hours, every day, just working on their systems and copywriting. And I’m like, Man, hats off to you. I like that.
Chris Davis 11:34
Yeah. And this this word autonomy is really good for this conversation. Because in the in the, the the words that you’re using is what are you willing to do? And what are you not? Right? This is the same thing that I asked my technology. Wait a minute, what are you willing to do here? I’m looking at your features. I’m looking I know what I need you to do? What can you do and what can’t you so I understand there’s gonna be this hybrid relationship of manual input or manual maintenance or manual management and automated execution to shape that that perspective, or to have the accurate expectation. Let me ask you this. Um, we’ve got you’ve got a four part apology framework that I want to talk about, but before we get into it, you mentioned keep buying Infusionsoft. And it piques my ears because a chiropractor’s saying keep by infusion or Infusionsoft by keep is very oxymoronic. Like chiropractor key to you know, where, where along the line, did you get the know how the willingness, the just that drive to really tackle a CRM for your business when most chiropractors are probably using the standard? You know, yeah, I dare you. system that’s given.
Josh Satterlee 13:09
Yeah, I would say that, for all those listening that are into the automation thing, that if you work with chiropractors, physical therapists, doctors, offices, dentists, all that mistake I commonly see my peers do is use our EHR electronic health records software. As a cobbled together CRM, it works really well once the person is in care. Like once you’ve done an exam and rendered diagnosis, it maintains the dates of service, the codes of service, what the diagnosis is, details about them, you know, you can put in there. Oh, Chris has a dog named rover, he loves talking about it, you know, you can do a lot of stuff there, when it falls off is before their patient. So marketing events are like, Hey, if you do a workshop or talk out there, it falls apart. And after discharge, it typically falls apart, right? So think about your if you go to the dentist in between your cleanings, that EHR just doesn’t work well. So anyway, so quick business lesson, I was as a chiropractor, and I was like, you know, everybody’s talking about continuity of care and, and membership membership membership. And I was like, Man, I just don’t like these chiropractic memberships come in and I just you and all this stuff, because as soon as you realize like, I’m just treating you like an ATM machine, like you’re gone. I don’t have continuity. Yeah. So I said, Well, what’s something that’s complimentary and I realized, you know, all my people, they they love to move, they want to move more they want to be active. So I said hey, a gym is perfect. So we blended a couple years ago, our clinic and a gym so our 1200 square foot clinic would open up to a 3500 square foot gym. And it was perfect continuity right like as soon as you if your shoulders injured, I fix your shoulder. put you out to the gym now use your shoulder make your shoulder stronger, making more flexible all that stuff. Well when you when you get a gym. Up to that point, I got all my business from a chiropractor thing from referrals, man word of mouth referrals. Had some doctors that like me had some, you know, just a bunch of people that liked me and sent clients left and right. When you open a gym, you realize, oh, there is a whole prequel to this idea of a new customer like this may take months and years. Yeah. Holy smokes, I need to send out, you know, invites and newsletters and all this stuff. So I went to the school of hard knocks on gym ownership. And luckily, I found somebody named I don’t know if you’ve come across a guy named Sean Greeley, he owns NP net profit explosion. It’s just like a niche consulting firm for Jim’s right. And he was a huge user of Infusionsoft and enticed me with the Hey, use this Infusionsoft. I’ll give you the campaigns. I’ll give you the emails, I’ll give you everything. And your life, you’ll hit one button in the morning, man, your life’s gonna be easy, baby. And so I was naive enough to believe that I signed up for Infusionsoft. I clicked. And nothing happened. But I was just too hard headed to like, you know, do it. And there were people who were kind of over the, the, you know, the adoption phase that I could see we’re having success. So you kind of hack through that. And, and I think a lot of things like I always say this to friends of mine who get a CRM, a CRM is like a bike, right? If I if I, if you’re six years old, and I take you out in the garage on Christmas Day, and I go, Chris, I bought you a bike and I hold his bike up, I let go, it falls over. And you’re like, What the hell is that thing? Oh, man, this is gonna change your life. And like you pick it up, and you let go and it falls over? Yeah, I think an early CRM is like that. You got to have campaigns run, you got to have context going through, you got to have momentum, just like on that bike, and all sudden, it’s like, oh, this makes so much sense. There you go. Yeah, I would never go back. But when you’re on those sales calls with the CRMs and software, they kind of brush over the falling and skinning your knee. You know, part of learning how to ride a bike, right? They just tell you about like, you’ll ride to work. You’ll take you half the time it’ll you know, you’re you’re gonna have your muse such good shape, Chris, man, you’re gonna love this bike. And like, what’s it look like? The first two weeks? Looks like a lot of bloody knees and banged elbows and everything. But we will talk about that. Just, you know, let me show you a picture of Lance Armstrong here. That’s a guy that rides a bike and yep. Yeah, yes, it
Chris Davis 17:28
was one of the hardest conversations to have. Because it seems to be the software people like to go the lightest on. And it’s like, this is the home. This is where your contacts live. This is their residence in your business. This is you know, you might want to pay special attention. And if your business is in an arctic environment, you may not want a light tent like Google Sheets as a CRM, they will freeze to death, they will get cold, and you’ll never be able to close anything. So another podcast, actually a previous podcast, you know, I go on my rant about CRM. But for you, for you, Josh, I really am interested in this four part apology framework that that builds trust through your communications. So you are unique because, and I was intentional with this. There’s other marketers out there that have different terminologies for, you know, nurturing leads, and building trust. And you know, they’ve coined these phrases and all kinds of words for these sequences and follow up sequences, which is fine, I have nothing against it. But for you in your industry, what I want to do is I want to listen to it and then look for parallels on how I would actually implement this as you’re talking. So listeners, Josh, and I have not had any conversation about this, I made sure I stay totally ignorant to this four part framework. So as you break down this framework, just I’ll jump in here and there with some automation implications of how it could possibly be implemented. But the floor is yours, Josh?
Josh Satterlee 19:07
Yeah. Well, I think one thing that’s important too, Chris, is the is this idea that, you know, in our research, we found looking at communication in that doctor patient relationship. And I think this goes everywhere. It’s just we have this research that’s already been done. So why not tap it? Right? Yeah, one of the things is this idea of, I’m sure you’ve heard of like malpractice, right? And the idea of malpractice is, if I do the wrong thing for you, I could get sued, right? And you as a patient, if that person does the wrong thing, I can pursue them in court. Sounds good. What we found on the research is because we’re dealing with cycle psychology, we’re dealing with patients who have feelings. I could get sued even if I do the right thing. So even if I do the right medicine, I could still get sued. And if I do the wrong thing, there’s a Chance, I won’t get sued. So it’s this funny thing. And I think that that extends to people like what makes people. For example, in your world, you could build the right system for somebody with all the right automations make their life easy. And it literally gets to a point where you click play. But because they told you that I want blue buttons everywhere, and you put red buttons, they would go, you did this job horribly, right? You did malpractice. And you’re like, I build everything you need, it’s gonna help your real estate business take off, and they’re like, but I said red button, you know? And so, the, there’s the three Ds, of when people will sue you in medicine. And I think it’s it’s important to listen to this for everybody that’s like in the automation world. First one is in that patient relationship. Just picture this. Let’s say you bring your mother into see me right, Chris, and your mother still lived and you care about her? Yep, absolutely. Okay, perfect. Number one, if I am demeaning to the patient, as a doctor, there’s a really high likelihood 60% chance I will get sued. Now, if I was demeaning to your mother, but I still do the right work and get her to feel better, there’s a good chance you’re still gonna go like, forget that guy. I hate that guy. I’m gonna sue him. Right? So demeaning. Number two, Devaluing your beliefs. And this beliefs can be a lot of things. But specifically, like lifestyle choices and or religion would be a good one. So if I, if you say, Hey, listen, my religion doesn’t let me take antibiotics. And I go, Well, that’s the only way Chris, you got to do it. You know, I don’t care what your religion says I’m devaluing your faith. Right? Which obviously, you’re like, hey, no, antibiotics could be the right medicine. But they’re not the right medicine for me right now. And so devaluing demeaning. And then the last one that oh, man is slipping my mind DTD, devalued, demeaning, and Chris, I just forgot, I’m gonna have to look it up here. I think so. But the point I want to make is the point I want to make is that, make sure as you’re maybe if you’re doing this, you know, if you’re working in the world as an automation service provider, which I love that term, you can’t devalue what the people do. And you don’t want to be demeaning in that thing. Because the whole reason you’re getting hired is you’re the expert by a longshot, right? Like, you come with these CRM solutions, these automation stuff, the things you can do is like wizardry, let’s but uh, you ever seen the SNL has that? It guy that’s supposed to be like, the, He’s the world’s meanest IT guy or whatever. He just comes in, like, How can this be command shift? You know, semi colon pound? I don’t understand what? That’s right. And it’s like, Man, this is like, so funny that we, you know, that that happens. But
Chris Davis 22:54
yeah, I’m glad you mentioned that, because it’s so easy to do. Any any industry, you can say it’s easy to do, but specifically with technology, because one, often how people use it is not a good indicator of their level of understanding. Right? I have seen people use a computer. And I’ve done something as simple as Ctrl V, and paste it in there. Like, what did you just do? Right? And I’m like, you’ve been using a computer for 20 years, you didn’t know that keyboard shortcut for paste. So technology is one of those things. There’s no mandate for understanding to use it. Most people are using the same tool or software 100 ways 100 ways and you couldn’t anticipate 98 of them. Right? So it’s very easy to come off as demeaning and devaluing. When you look at somebody say, why wouldn’t you just do that? Why wouldn’t you just click that button? But yeah, why would you choose that for CRM, right? Like it is super easy to as any one of those ds,
Josh Satterlee 23:57
and I would tell you, like, I even feel that like, I go to these user conferences, and I would say I’m a rookie, like, we go to the bike analogy, I can ride a BMX bike around my neighborhood, man. I’m not like, I’m sure you are like, the Shawn white of automation, CRM, like you can do a halfpipe backflip, you know, whatever. And I’m just like, hey, man, I can put a contact in, I can hit a couple different steps. I can send a few messages, I can tag them. Cool. And you’re like, yawn yawn. But for me, that’s enough. But I go to some of these conferences, and I would tell you that the speakers that are the most welcoming and warm and invite everybody come in wherever they are, do so well. And the ones that are you know, what would you say are kind of like, Oh, everybody knows how to do this. You know? Like, I can’t believe you wouldn’t, you wouldn’t know this and it’s like, I’m like in the back like trying to hide and I’m a big dude, I can’t hide you know, yeah, yeah, well, okay, sorry. I didn’t mean to be rude. You know? So, yeah,
Chris Davis 25:01
yeah, I, when I, when I speak in person and in even on virtual, I always preface it and say, Hey, this is no shame zone, right? Yeah, in no penalty for previous performance, because you didn’t know any better. But now you’re here to learn nobody shaming anyone, let’s let’s, let’s figure out how to make the path forward much better. So spot on. Alright, so you’ve got your framework, walk us through it and just kind of talk us through what this four part apology framework is.
Josh Satterlee 25:37
Yeah, so the first thing, so So what this says is, if we forget to include aspects of the, you know, of this apology, they will not feel complete. And so I think that this can be useful in a lot of different things. You know, I mean, like, if a guy was like, married or something, you know, you could figure this out. But, yeah, I mean, hypothetically, of course, Chris, I know that you’re a perfect, perfect husband, you know, but
Chris Davis 26:06
we’ll, we’ll keep that between me and you, Josh.
Josh Satterlee 26:10
Yeah, so the first thing, the first thing is that validation of what the other party is saying. So number one validating. So this research really comes. So so if you’re, if you’ve ever heard of autoimmune conditions, they’re a condition where your own body is attacking you. Right. So like Crohn’s disease would be autoimmune thyroid condition, like the problem is inside your own body? Well, when you look at the research of the average time it takes for somebody to be diagnosed with an autoimmune disease. So let’s say again, you take your mother and to see the doctor and you’re like, something’s off with her. And she’s telling me, Chris, I’m just not feeling right. What do you think the average length of time is, before somebody gets diagnosed with an autoimmune condition accurately diagnosed? Just throw it on an idea?
Chris Davis 26:57
Five minutes. Keep going 50.
Josh Satterlee 27:04
On average, when a person goes into a doctor’s office and says, I have something wrong with me, right now, autoimmune condition is hard because like, it’s your own body. So a lot of things are working right. There’s something that’s not working around you on average, it takes seven years. Oh, for them to achieve?
Chris Davis 27:22
Oh, laggard accuracy. Yeah. Okay. I thought you’re thinking malpractice. And some I just Oh, yeah. Give them a label. I got you.
Josh Satterlee 27:30
Typically. They go in. They say something’s wrong with me. The doctor checks mountain says, No, you’re fine. Right, huh, you’re fine. And so along those seven years now, that’s the average. So you know, there’s a lot of cats going 12 years. Maybe some get lucky at four years. But can you imagine taking your mom to seven years of appointments before anybody ever was accurate about it? So the most one of the most important thing is to validate their position. Hey, Chris, I know. I agree with you. Something’s wrong. I agree with you. You are correct. Something is wrong. So if I come to you, let’s just say in the business world, I go, Chris, something about my CRM system is not working right. The first step is validating me, Oh, I understand that you are not seeing your CRM do what you want it to do. Right? I don’t want to feel crazy in the situation. And we go back in those seven years, most of those people are diagnosed with two separate psychological conditions before they’re accurately diagnosed with their condition. Right. And just drawing those correlative, how many times have you gotten calls from clients or heard about clients that telling like, Oh, this guy came in and screwed it all up, and it doesn’t work anymore? Now? Probably didn’t screw it up. You might even made it more efficient, right? Yeah. But he didn’t validate what they were looking for. Right? He didn’t say that. It’s okay for you to not understand Ctrl V. It’s okay. You know, Chris is gonna show you. And so the first thing is that validation, right,
Chris Davis 28:53
I like that. Now, I will add that so the automation, inclination there is I tell people all the time, when you’re building out the customer journey, you’re always listening to what people are saying and what they’re doing. So you need to be paying attention to that behavior, so that you can validate it. If somebody went to your pricing page three times, and then opts in to your newsletter, or whatever the case may be. How well positioned are you to validate the fact that you’ve seen Hey, you, I saw you you’ve expressed interest in the in the in the pricing in our pricing model, would you like to set up a call, but some people aren’t listening everything that you’re saying naturally, it’s active listening. As a person, I know how to do that. Do you know how to make your technology actively listen to the behaviors and desires of your contacts as they’re going through? Alright, great. Got it.
Josh Satterlee 29:50
So that’s the first step if you don’t do that, so think about an argument with your wife you’ve had recently right? She’s going on and on. She probably is just looking for validation like you say, You know what? I know this was a big deal to you. Right? I know, the unloaded dishwasher was a big deal. And we’re gonna move, you know, we’re gonna move forward. So anyways, then the next thing sounds sounds silly but saying you’re sorry, actually saying the words I apologize or I am sorry. Or, you know, I screwed up. And I realized that if you ever hear like a politician speak, right, or you hear somebody and they miss that part, it doesn’t matter what else they say they all go hopes and prayers are with the families and we’re blah, blah, blah. And you’re like, just say the words. I’m sorry. I apologize, right? But stop avoiding it like it’s going to make anybody better. Right? And it’s so funny, because sometimes people are like, Oh, don’t admit, don’t ever admit you were wrong. But you can still say like, Hey, Chris, I’m sorry, this cost you some sales. I’m sorry that you missed these, you know that we can’t find those contacts. I’m sorry, for XYZ. And in my case, it’s like, Chris, I’m sorry, I didn’t see the symptoms with your mom sooner. And you go, Okay, now, I’m not saying you’re 100%. Better, right? We don’t have a perfect relationship. But at least I open the door to things getting better. And I think if you don’t say sorry, or don’t say, I apologize, you’re just keeping the door shut. To miss
Chris Davis 31:22
this good. Josh. That’s that’s taking ownership. And this one would be an automation service provider inclination here. And it’s fighting imposter syndrome, right? When you’re providing the service of automation, and maybe you thought it was gonna work, or perhaps that zap didn’t fire or you took a gamble on another tool, or maybe you just got in over your head, you said you could do it in two weeks, it’s taking you two months. And now it’s been a whole year, just coming to the table and saying, You know what? I’m sorry. I’m sorry that I promised this deadline. I keep missing it. I can only imagine the impact that is having on your business. And the the state of emotion that you’ve gone through dealing with me. And the fact that you’re still here, lets me know that I still have a chance to get it. Right. Right. Like just put it on the table. Acknowledge as you met, as you mentioned, validate, I guess we’re putting one in two together. But this is this is how we human effectively.
Josh Satterlee 32:24
Yeah. And the other thing about it is like when people it’s not just like, think about in the emails people send and like, you know, I’m trying to think of a situation where you would automate an email, but so many times are like, you know, you get these like, around the holidays, I had ordered a bunch of stuff online, and I get these things from Amazon like, Hey, your, your deliveries running late, but on its way, I’m like, Cool. If it would say, hey, sorry, your deliveries running late. But we’ll get there soon. I’ll be like, Alright, hey, listen, stuff happens. But because I don’t know, maybe I’m just being trivial here. But I’m like, Just say it, man. And if you ever watch the difference. Yeah, you hear somebody apologizing without apologizing, I would say that one of the common themes is they don’t say the word. Sorry. So that’s it. Now the next the next step. So validate, say, sorry, or I apologize, right? The third step is recognize why not what the why you were wrong? Mm hmm. Now, I say not what was wrong, so you don’t go man? Chris, I’m sorry. That you have 100,000 Spam contacts in your thing. I mean, spam contacts happen. You’re like they do, but you were the guy hired to fix it. And it’s like, why it’s wrong. Hey, Chris, I’m sorry that you have 100,000 contacts. And I know that that cost you extra money in your database. And we’re going to have to do a bunch of cleanup. And I see that it costs you money, right? Or I know that it shut down your whole system. And it took four hours out of your day for all your real estate agents, or whatever the reason is, right? But why it was wrong. So what is the feeling? I have not what was the action occurring? Right? So if I throw a book at you, and I say, Chris, you’re an idiot, and I throw a book at you don’t go, Chris. I’m really sorry. That book flew through the air. I’m sorry, it hits you. It’s like, none of that stuff happened. If you hadn’t, it’s like, Hey, I should not have lost my temper. Yeah, that was the problem. Right? that recently happened with that man. Yeah, with that. People were sitting this on the news about the SUV that ran some people over something. It’s like, that is the action but What the Why is what we want to hear, you know, like, why did that happen? So it’s so it’s validate. Say the words I’m sorry. Why things were wrong.
Chris Davis 34:54
Yep. And real quick, right there. I will say this. Your automation are not going to run perfectly. You’re you’re not gonna be you know, get it right every time. I to this day in listeners, if you if you have received an email from me like this, this is you and eyes little time to laugh. But there are times where my automation will fire a email off erroneously. Or maybe there’s a case that I just forgot. I was like, Oh, I had the date trigger. I didn’t realize the Leap Year or you know, I didn’t realize that this specific thing with automation up. So then people get it, and people aren’t, you know, they’ll respond. Hey, Chris, did you mean to send this, Hey, why am I getting this? And I always do what you said. I say I’m sorry. But to the point of recognizing why you were wrong. What I like to do, what I like to do, Josh, is tell them exactly what happened. I’m sorry, you weren’t supposed to get that email. My bad. I actually had the automation set up to send it tomorrow. And for whatever reason, I forgot to add the wait state. They appreciate it. It’s like, almost like
Josh Satterlee 36:01
you’re getting down to that very point of Yep. It’s not general, it’s specific to this thing that didn’t happen.
Chris Davis 36:07
And yes, it’s positive response every single time. In fact, I’ve actually got customers out of that are like, Oh, he knows how to fix what’s wrong. And I’m trying to let them like, I’m truly sorry, because I don’t want my automations to, to, you know, have a mind of their own. I’ve got a brand and I’m upholding listen, I’m supposed to be the one that has it together. But I have no, no issue at all not being perfect. Zero.
Josh Satterlee 36:34
Well, that’s good, because none of us are you know, yep. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that kind of leads perfectly to the next step, the fourth step, which is to talk about what will change or what you’ll do next time. Hmm. So seeing how your wrong actions affect you and how you’re going to change for the next time? Yeah, so if I, if I threw that book at you, and I go, Chris, I lost my temper. I’m very sorry. I realized that I shouldn’t lost my temper. Next time. I’m going to tell you, I’m going to use these words, Chris, I’m very frustrated with you right now. Instead of holding it in and throwing a book at you, or next time, I’m going to walk away. And that’s not disrespectful, you I just need some time to let my my head get right. And I want to come back and talk to you. Okay, so next time, you might see me leave, but it’s not out of disrespect for you. In fact, I’m trying to come to you with a better thing. Right? In business, I’m sure you can think of ways you’ll say next time, right next time. We’ll do it this way. Or we’ll do it better. Now. That opens up an interesting door. Because you got to live up to what you just said, right? Yeah. So if I throw a book at you again, it’s like okay, well, this dude’s not really sorry. He’s just, he’s an angel. Yeah, yeah. No. So if you say, hey, next time, we will schedule that, you know, I’ll double check the the, would you say the wait? The wait state? Yep. Wait state. But you still brush over? And it’s like, okay, well, you’re not really sorry. Right. So this one probably has the biggest amount of work coupled to it. But if you think about this, again, go back to like, you probably have like a perfect marriage and never argued with your wife. I wish, yeah, but if you think about it, that’s a lot of, especially in an intimate relationship like that, like doctor patient or husband, wife, or, you know, they want to know what will change because the amount of change that you recognize is how they’re kind of equating that validation step. So if you truly validate what I believe, hey, listen, I’m sorry. So let me do this. From a perspective, like if you brought your mom and, Chris, I’m sorry, that it’s taken me so long to figure out what was really going on with your mom. Right, validate. I said, I was sorry, already. Right. Now I need to say why I made that mistake. I wasn’t paying attention to all these signs. And frankly, this I’m gonna steal your your trick here. I wasn’t correlating the blood work as as big of a player as it should have been. Right. Next time she comes in. What I’m going to do is check the blood work first. And in fact, because of this conversation, I’m gonna actually check the blood work of all my patients moving forward if they have the same complaints. Now, you weren’t pissed at me about your mom. But how good do you feel about my apology right now in this fictional situation?
Chris Davis 39:27
Yeah, I feel you know what, even you just saying that I feel good about this situation. And there’s something about me being the guinea pig here. That’s, that is the cause of you changing your way. And it’s like, hey, if we hadn’t done this now, everybody else is going to be better. You know, for what we just experienced. Wow. Yeah.
Josh Satterlee 39:48
Yeah. And you can see how that will extend to a lot of things. But the, the little acronym I always think of for people is, a lot of times we want to just say, Chris, I’m sorry. I’m very sorry. And we want to move on. But there’s not those four points, right? Because if I just say I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m not digging into why you’re so upset. And I’m not giving you the satisfaction knowing Hey, this dude actually got it. You know, I’m just using this word, sorry. And you’re like, Okay, this, this doesn’t do anything for me. Right? So I always say, very sorry, won’t work. Right? So V is validate. Ssh? Sorry, you got to say you’re sorry. And then won’t work. WW is why you were wrong. And what you’ll do in the future to change? Yeah, maybe VSWW
Chris Davis 40:38
Super powerful soup. I’m just thinking about my automation service providers. I mean, we’ve got countless client stories, right. And the good thing about the group that my group of people is, we never talk down to anybody, even even though they’re not in the in the room, or even though it may be their fault. There’s always this sense of, okay, what went wrong. So this framework is extremely valuable. And it’s appropriate, it’s coming from someone in the service industry, that skills are great to have, they may open the door skill, may open the door. But your ability to build and keep trust is going to keep that door open. And you in the room. And this is the part I get it, automation is sexy, let’s send some emails, the add some tags, do some things. But when things go a little sideways for your client, and it’s your fault, right? Like you, you were the one that they pay top dollar to get this done. They need the assurance that you’re the type of person that’s going to take ownership, validate the bad experience that you’ve caused on their behalf and their brand. Apologize for it. Go take the time, you may not be able to do it all in one city. Maybe it takes time for you to go and research what went wrong. Why did this break? Like? Okay, give me give me just two days, I promise you, I’m going to tell you exactly what happened. You go back, figure out what happened, speak to it specifically, and then have a game plan going forward. If you execute on that game plan going forward, that’s going to assure them even more. Okay, this is the person because one, I don’t have to wonder what’s broken, or if something is broken, they’ll own it. And two is they’ve shown that they’ll go fix it, they’ll put the effort in to identify what’s wrong, and then they’ll go fix it. Now, that creates the environment for you to continue to perform and provide your service and at a top tier level. So oh, man, that was good. That was good, Josh. Oh, man, I greatly appreciate it. Tell me this, um, when you know, comparison, I like to think that everybody is always in competition of them of yesterday, right? So you’re trying to beat yourself out. But what is one thing that you can say that you experience that your counterparts who don’t use a CRM don’t get to experience in your specific industry?
Josh Satterlee 43:16
Oh, man. All right. All right. Alright, so so we just talked all about apologies and laughing and if you have a few more minutes, I’ll tell you a story on the front end of this because I think it can apply as well. So the sorry, stuff is usually midway or at the end of a relationship, right? The person’s already come in, you’ve already done business with them and our sense. So we help we consult with some chiropractors and physical therapists about essentially, it is a CRM, like that’s how you would say technologically, but all we say is please patient communication. Right? The patient the patient pathway, so it always goes in the same way, like hey, you hear about a doctor, you schedule your appointment, you go in for an exam, then you do follow ups and you get discharged. Right? It’s it always follows that same pathway. The magic, so in that in that research, and I think this is really good for anybody who does sales calls. There’s research out of a pre appointment, text message. Right? And this has been done repeatedly in medicine, but just a pre appointment text message within about two days of the appointment. So you make an appointment for next Wednesday. You’re getting a pre appointment text message between Monday and Tuesday. Right? saying Hey, Chris, you got this now, what’s crazy is the original the place that you saw the most power on this was in. In Africa, they have a lot of these aids clinics where people who have HIV or AIDS need to come in to these clinics and get care. So what they found is if they send that pre appointment text message, the show up rate increased by 50%. Five 0%. Now, this is a huge deal to them, because they can’t make a difference in the spread of HIV if they get people sign up, but think about this, of all the appointments that you would have difficulty getting somebody to. It’s embarrassing. It’s, you know that there’s going to be ton of follow up, right? This isn’t like a one and done kind of deal. There’s all this pressure on it. But that text messages they saw, reduce no shows by 50%. So if anybody’s like, Hey, I have sales appointments, I would do 50%. Now, here’s the kicker, you asked me like, What do you see that some people don’t see? We work with our clients. And you can imagine if I just say like, Chris Davis has an appointment at 1045 at this address, that’s pretty boring, right? But text, or MMS allows you to send a picture, right? So we encourage our people to send one of three things. Here’s the one. Hey, you’re gonna see Dr. Davis, at 1045, I send a picture of Dr. Chris Davis, right. And all that the message is, hey, I’m excited to see you at 1045. Or I look forward to meeting you at 1045. Maybe that doesn’t work for their situation. So the other thing is, who is the first person they’ll see when they walk in that office? So you know, sometimes medical offices have a big desk? Yep, there’s one person doing reception, there’s four different doctors, just send, hey, this is Stacey, she’s our patient coordinator. You walk in head to her. Now this thing about you walk into that office with your mom again, if you know by face, who you’re supposed to check in with? How much anxiety just reduced. Yeah, a bunch, right. The one other that we find, actually works well is, especially if you work with an older population. So over, you know, 5060 Because in medicine, we’re seeing a lot of people but as you age, you kind of see a big decline. And if you have a difficult to get to or difficult to find office, we encourage people take a picture from the outside from the parking lot, and circle like use this elevator, you go through this door, you know, don’t use these stairs, something like that, because I’m sure that everybody listening has been to one of those appointments where, you know, they tell you the address and you’re like, man, you’re a liar, you’re not at this address, you’re around the corner 500 meters away, it feels like and if you’re, I mean, in the world of chiropractic, like some people have back pain there, it’s tough to walk. So asking them to just traipse, you know, over to this stairway, up the stairs across through that door. It’s rude. It’s frankly rude. And we have the technology. Like if I tell you, Hey, Chris, all I want is to send a text message with a picture 24 hours before my patients appointments. Like if I give you that, quote unquote, challenge, how hard is that technologically? To solve?
Chris Davis 47:45
Oh, super simple, right? Yeah, just
Josh Satterlee 47:49
for us. Every one of my clients that do that. Every one of them comes back to me with stories of Oh, my gosh, I can’t believe you did that. I wish all my doctors did this, or yeah, thank you so much. This was so helpful, or, Oh, thanks. I’m really looking forward to talking to you about it. And the other thing it does for my clients, all doctors are under the pressure of the clock, right? Like we can just spend as much time as we want. Well, building that little bit of trust on the front end, sending that text message oftentimes reduces the need to just small talk in the office by about five minutes. Well, that five minutes has a ton of value to the doctor, right. But if you know who you’re seeing, I’m going to see Dr. Chris Davis. And you know, I see a smiling face. I walk in the room. It’s not my first time seeing them. Yeah, I have so much more trust. And it’s like, oh, especially if you’re good. And you you know what the patient’s name is? Yeah, and you say, you got to be trickier. But if you can say, oh, Stacy, it’s nice to meet you. Yeah, I texted you yesterday. Yeah, yeah. And I know that was automated. But if that
Chris Davis 48:54
right, magic happens, oh, man.
Josh Satterlee 48:56
It’s like, oh, well, yeah.
Chris Davis 48:59
That’s what we automate for that magic right there. Yeah. To me, it’s like the allyoop automation throws it up. And at the time where the human interaction is called upon. just slam dunk it Yes. Make that connection yesterday. I’m glad you got the text message. So great to meet you. They’re like, Oh, my gosh, this, this, this office feels totally different. And you know, I really like Yeah.
Josh Satterlee 49:22
Again, like if I talk to somebody like you or something has been through your program, like setting that up. Yet, you could do 100 other other things from office. I know that 1000 things but just do that. And then walk me through here. Here’s one thing I think that sometimes automatic service providers, neglect is once you set up this automation, how do you want the people in the office to act or what should they say, to support the automation that’s
Chris Davis 49:48
running support that automation? Yeah, so if I
Josh Satterlee 49:51
know a text one out that said, Hey, I’m, this is Dr. Josh, I’m looking forward to seeing you tomorrow at 1045. If I walk into that exam room and I go Oh, Chris, it’s nice to meet you. Yeah, I’m the one that texted you yesterday or I, I sent that text yesterday. The magic that happens at that moment, makes the automation worth 100 times more, makes my work worth 100 times more. And I’ll tell you this. One thing, I don’t think that, you know, a lot of times on the front end of a medical procedure, you ask all what we call red flag questions, like, Do you have any numbness? Have you? You know, is there any blood in your urine or your stool? Like, these are big deal questions. Were asking like, Are you dying from cancer? Or do you just have back pain? Yeah, I will tell you that so many times, people just go no, no, no, I’m fine. In later, once there is trust built. We’ll go hey, by the way, I know you asked me this before, but yeah, I’ve actually had numbness through my legs. I can’t feel anything for the last five weeks. And I’m like, Well, why did you say that? Well, the reason they didn’t say it is I’m asking those tough questions, those red flag questions. At the time, we have the least amount of trust, which is the first day, right. Yeah, it’s idiotic. So if I can just build up that trust by sending a simple text message with a picture. I can save lives, you know, and that’s where I think automation really can help people. So anyways, man, I could go on and on. Because this is
Chris Davis 51:16
yeah, no, this is great. Yeah. So
Josh Satterlee 51:19
those automated service providers out there, man, if you can provide the script for the situation that supports those automations. You know, or here’s another one. Now you can next level, if you know, a message is going out 24 hours after we meet or something. And you go, Hey, I got a full day today. But tomorrow morning, I’m going to send you a survey. Because I know you’re meeting me in the morning, right? 24 hours later I go, I’m gonna send you a survey of how you’re feeling. You can fill that out to be great. And then 24 hours later, they get that survey. It’s like, oh, man, Chris, did he promise made promise in follow on it? Awesome. Yep. Now what kind of work? Did the provider need to do? Nothing. Just say, I’m gonna send you a survey tomorrow.
Chris Davis 52:01
Man, no, your system, prep people, for the system’s performance in the meet the people who go through the system. Yeah. authentically, man, this is great. Josh, if, listen, if our listeners want to find out more about you connect with you follow you maybe come to your practice in Las Vegas. Where should they go?
Josh Satterlee 52:23
Yeah, probably the easiest way to find me. You know, we have a website. It’s more facing chiropractors and physical therapists called clinic gym hybrid clinic, gym hybrid.com. They can email me at Josh @ Clinic gym hybrid, if they want want to get a hold of me. That’s probably the easiest way. Yeah, and I’m on Facebook. I’m in actually some keep user groups and stuff like, right, what did they call that? trolling? You know, like looking for little tips and whatnot. And going from there, but yeah, man, they can find me and whatnot. I just hope that those people that are automating those systems out there, just realize if you do it, right, it’s so powerful. You will, I don’t want this. I hope this doesn’t come off as like cheesy, but you could save lives just through the right automations. You know, if you get that person to admit to their doctor, like, Hey, I’ve had numbness or I’ve been peeing blood for the last two weeks. That changes the entire picture, and doing it the right way. And you could really serve some people out there, you could literally save lives. So I hope they do it.
Chris Davis 53:23
Quite the mandate. Quite the mandate. Hey, no pressure,
Josh Satterlee 53:27
no pressure, no pressure whatsoever. We’re
Chris Davis 53:28
here for saving lives with automation. Who would have thought? Yeah. Thank you, man. Thank you so much for jumping on the podcast man is greatly appreciated.
Josh Satterlee 53:39
Well, thanks for having me, Chris. It was a pleasure to finally meet you. And I like I’m so excited about what you bring in the world with the automated service provider. Man, I think that that is the future of every medical practice out there and has to be it has to be yes. Yeah, yes. Yeah.
Chris Davis 53:53
So we’re aligned
Josh Satterlee 53:55
are my friend. You’re doing the work that we can’t or we don’t know how so appreciate it.
Chris Davis 54:00
Yep. Yep. Thank you, man. Appreciate you and I’ll see you online. All right. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of The all systems go podcast. If you enjoyed it, make sure that you’re subscribed at the time of recording the all systems go podcast is free to subscribe to, and it can be found in Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts new episodes are released every Thursday. So make sure you’re subscribed so that you don’t miss out and while you’re at it, please leave us a five star rating and review to show some love but also to help future listeners more easily find the podcast so they can experience the value of goodness as well. We’ve compiled all resources mentioned on the podcast, as well as other resources that are extremely valuable and effective at helping you grow your marketing automation skills quickly. And you can access them all at allsystemsgopodcast.com Thanks again for listening and until next time I see you online automate responsibly my friends
- [3:02] Josh shares how he first realized the importance of building trust and communication
- [8:19] The importance of autonomy and why it is imperative to have in your client relationships
- [11:34] How to find autonomy when choosing software
- [12:29] Why Josh decided to tackle using a CRM as a chiropractor
- [20:46] Josh explains the 3 D’s in medicine and how they relate to marketing automation
- [25:37] Josh’s 4-part apology framework for communication
- [31:22] How to utilize the first 2 steps of the apology framework as a service provider
- [34:54] The importance of explaining why it went wrong instead of what went wrong
- [41:04] “Your skills may open the door, but your ability to build and keep trust is going to keep that door open and you in the room.”
- [47:49] Josh shares how using a CRM in his industry sets him apart from competitors
- [49:22] 1 crucial key piece that is often overlooked in service provider and client communication
- Website: https://clinicgymhybrid.com
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About the Show
On the show, Chris reveals all of his automated marketing strategies he has learned from working in fast growing marketing technology startups so you can put your business on autopilot quickly and without error.
Discover how to deploy automated marketing, sales, and delivery systems to scale your business without working long hours to do so.
Chris L. Davis
Chris is an Electrical Engineer turned entrepreneur who is the Founder of Automation Bridge, an international speaker and facilitator, and startup consultant