Trusting Your Gut Over Your Data feat. Tim Cakir

Narrator 0:00
You’re listening to the All systems go podcast, the show that teaches you everything you need to know to put your business on autopilot. Learn how to deploy automated marketing and sale systems in your business the right way with your host, the professor of automation himself and founder of automation bridge, Chris Davis.

Chris Davis 0:31
Welcome to the All systems go podcast. I’m your host, Chris L. Davis, the founder and chief automation Officer of automation bridge the place online to learn about small business marketing, and Sales Automation. This is where we focus on turning digital marketing professionals into automation service providers. And if you’d like to know more about what that process entails, or if you’d like to become one, please visit all systems go podcast comm to find out more. If you’re new to the podcast, make sure that you listen to this episode in its entirety, then subscribe and share at the time of this recording. The All systems go podcast is free to subscribe to. Okay, if you’re already a listener, you just haven’t subscribed for whatever reason, now is the time I really don’t know what you’re waiting on. Alright, would love to have you as a subscriber Every Thursday we release new episodes. You can find the show and all main podcasting apps like Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, you can even subscribe on YouTube. Okay, do me a favor. While you’re at it, subscribing leave a five star rating and review. It will be greatly appreciated. And it teaches Apple and Google and everybody else that we are one of the best of breed. And it’s kind when we’re educating and teaching on small business, marketing and sales automation. All right. This episode, I get to sit down and talk with Tim Cakir. And it’s a bit of a I intentionally brought him on to play devil’s advocate, you all know that. We are I am an advocate of data driven decision making. I’ve recorded a podcast on it. Those of you who follow me for a while know that I let the data determine what needs to be done. However, Tim brings an interest in interesting case to the table, that sometimes your gut is right. So how do we balance that? How do we balance trusting the gut and trusting the data? So Tim is going to explain that help us understand when to do both because we are dealing with humans. All right. Tim is a growth consultant who helps companies and entrepreneurs and students achieve fast and consistent growth. Working with 17 startups to date, some of his best achievements include helping a couple startups receive 1.7 million in euros in horizon 22 funding, increasing MRR of one of the startups from 80k to 300k, in less than 18 months, and completing projects such as implementation of okrs building company dashboards, rebranding and product launches, Tim and I get to really dive in deep and discuss gut versus versus data. Who wins? And when do they win? And why enjoy the conversation between Tim and Tim, welcome to the podcast, man. Glad to have you on how are you doing?

Tim Cakir 3:22
I’m great, Chris, thank you so much for inviting me to the podcast. Oh, good to hear how about yourself?

Chris Davis 3:26
Yes, yes, I’m, I’m doing well, man. No matter how things are going, I believe they will get better. And, and, and go from now. Right now that you’re on the podcast. I’m hopeful that my digital marketers, my analytics folks, those who just live by the numbers, their their life is going to dramatically improve after listening to this. So give our listeners a little bit about your bio and your business.

Tim Cakir 3:58
Yeah, sure. I mean, I’ve I’ve started in sales back in the day, that was my first step in my career was sales, then I got into marketing because I didn’t want to

Tim Cakir 4:06
Well, basically in sales, I was selling carpets door to door and people didn’t need those carpets that I was selling. So then when I discovered marketing, I felt a bit better about myself because I didn’t have to, you know, sell something to someone that they didn’t need instead find the people who might need the copper, let’s say example and then attract them. Right. So so that changed a lot my life. That was about 1012 years ago. And then I got into growth right there was this trend of growth hacking or whatever, you know, it’s a buzzword I think about but I became a growth hacker if you want to call it you know and and from there on. I was very lucky because I moved to Barcelona about five years ago. And I started helping a bunch of startups I’ve until today I’ve helped about 17 plus startups. I think now I got a couple more clients about 19 startups

Tim Cakir 4:55
to grow. And I’m not just from marketing, but I see growth as

Tim Cakir 5:00
Operations marketing sales product is a combination of all of the talent of the people and making sure they have the right goals, the right training, and so on. So I became a growth consultant. That’s been the latest in my career. And that’s what I’m doing right now. In the meantime, I’ve realized that there has been a bit of,

Tim Cakir 5:18
I found a bit of a gap between a strategical goal setting and day to day execution. And this is why I’m building a platform called squad one, you can find on squad one that I Oh, that’s my next venture. For the first time, I’m actually launching my own startup. So. So it’s a bit scary, but also also quite fun. Yeah. And as somebody who is intimate and experienced with growth, right, we hear a term in SAS, and for those listening, SAS mean software as a service. But there’s a term that is growth by numbers, right. And it’s like, you know, being being data driven, look at the numbers. That’s how you achieve growth. And let me just say, I do ride that train often. Right? Like, I think that I’m data driven decision making is some of the most powerful decision making that you can do. Especially because that’s what digital marketing affords us. It gives us that ability to now see what people are doing and how things are performing. However, Tim, you’re here to help keep him balanced, man. And when I heard about the topics that you speak on, I said, oh, I’ve got to have this guy on the podcast, because it’s a safe devil’s advocate approach, right? A lot of times, it’s so it’s such a binary decision. You’re either data driven or not. You either trust your gut or you data, your data driven. Which one you choose wisely. Right. So you’ve got one one camp of people that just like, you know, I just my gut feeling said no, so I didn’t do it. Right. Then other people like listen, everything said no, but the data said, Yes. You know, so that’s what we did. It reminds me of Have you ever seen the movie Moneyball? Moneyball? I think I’ve seen trained about I haven’t watched it. Yeah, they they introduced analytics to baseball.

Chris Davis 7:19
Actually, sorry, yeah. Yep. So I can’t remember the end. I don’t think the guy ever won a championship.

Chris Davis 7:26
But he would orchestrate the teams based on you know, data. So Tim, you have the floor man, I wanted to talk about gut versus data, not in the terms of which one is greater, because guess what, Tim? Were humans. So they’re both always present. So how do people balance the decision driven nature that we must adhere to as marketers and in growth professionals, along with the human nature of just that intuition and gut feeling at times? Grace? I mean, you’ve kind of said it yourself, right? It’s zeros and ones, right? So data, zeros and ones. So if you think if you start thinking about zeros and ones, that’s great, but we’re not all machines, right? We’re all we’re marketing to humans.

Tim Cakir 8:13
I actually have a talk out there on YouTube somewhere, which is H2H, marketing human to human marketing. And when I first moved here, I had too many people talking about b2b, b2c, b2b, b2c and stuff like that. And I was like, Guys, forget about it. Because even behind the business, actually, who’s going to make a decision as a human? Right? So I started about five, six years ago preaching this human to human approach and not to worry too much about b2b b2c, I think the difference between b2b b2c, it’s more than messaging, it’s more hard formal or informal in the in the communication. And then what I’ve realized is that we’re all data driven, right? why this happened is because about 15 years ago, we didn’t have that much tracking within that much data. And so we built plenty of tools, right? We have CRM, we have, you know, like heat map tools, we have so many data tools that you can get data, you can extract data from so many different platforms, so many different tools, that I think we became data drawn, right, there’s too much data out there. So and we start making these, these these,

Tim Cakir 9:15
these decisions on based on cold and hard facts, which is great. I think that’s one of the pros about being data driven. Right. But what I start preaching now, it’s what I call data informed. Right? So that’s, as you said, guts or human, human approach. Why? Because you should always be informed by the data, right? You should always have the data at hand. Right? And sometimes it’s very obvious, right? The data shows you something and it’s very obvious that you have to do that decision on a base, cold, hard fact, right, based on that. But sometimes that makes you not focus on the big picture. Right? So I think on data and form focusing on the big picture is one of the pros about data in from, let’s say, I mean, a really bad example that I’m going to give it’s nobody new COVID coming right

Tim Cakir 9:59
And suddenly COVID came, what happened to our numbers, our numbers changed completely. So if you were just making decisions on based on cold and hard facts, you might have fired people, you might have told your business not doing well, which wasn’t doing well. But hey, we had a pandemic out there, right. So there are so many things out there that can happen, that would change

Tim Cakir 10:21
our data, day to day routine about data, and so on. So I think being data informed, it’s that bringing a bit of gut feeling, or sometimes, you know, we call that the blink, you know, you just blink your eyes, and you may try to make a decision after you’ve looked at the data or things like that. And, and, you know, that data informed approach really helped me, help me myself, and also my clients, you know, saying, guys, all right, that’s awesome. Don’t be too data driven. First of all, sit down, and, you know, breathe, understand the data, right? And make sure that you validate your emotion, your your gut feeling with that data. If you’re not able to do that, then then question again, where the data comes from, what happens the data, look outside, and understand that there is something else messing up with that data? Right? And don’t just, you know, don’t just say, Okay, this is this is it, that’s my decision. And and I think that there is a bunch of pros and cons about both about you being data driven, or data informed. But I believe that now, especially in a post pandemic world, and how marketing got a little bit robotic at some point, right, a couple of years ago. And we need to bring that human approach again. And that’s definitely not going to be by being data driven. But being a bit more data informed, in my opinion. Yeah, I love the term data informed. Because if anything, that that kind of gives us the safe language for being able to still use our gut our intuition, and I think that it’s using either in isolation is what we’re trying to prevent. Right? Like, yeah, you want to be able to let the data inform you of your decision making process but not determined everything. Right? Because you said, Yeah, yeah. It’s not about everything. If everything was numbers, then why do we even exist, and then that’s where we will leave it to the robot. That’s where we’re going to leave it to machine learning AI and all that, right. At the end of the day is input, a black box, which is the algorithms right and up, right? That’s not how we live. That’s definitely not how we live. The best companies, the best solutions, the best, you know, solutions to big problems in the world hasn’t come from data, it has come from human creativity, human guts, feeding, human craziness, I can call it right, Elon Musk doesn’t do everything about data, right. And he he creates a company from from nowhere, just seeing a problem. This an example i’m not i’m not such a big fan. But you know, I don’t want to go to Mars. You know, that’s a bit crazy out there. But the example that I’m trying to give here is that we don’t build companies because we’ve seen something on data and that we’ve been driven by that data. And then we suddenly create a new social media platform or something like that, right? We inform ourselves with that data. And then we, as humans, we have a bigger job to do then the machines and not to lose the machines, because some people are very scared, right? They’re like, Oh, the machines are gonna take over our jobs, they will take over your your jobs, if you really think that the machines can do everything. They can’t, they can’t be creative. They can’t think outside the box. They’re actually a box. So so this is why I i’ve been preaching this approach of database data informed.

Chris Davis 13:39
Yeah, yeah. And you know, when you were saying that I had this idea of, you know, when I’m doing automation, teaching, Marketing and Sales Automation, people have that, that notion that, oh, I don’t want my marketing and be robotic. I need the personal touch. And you know, you have to explain to them, there’s a blend, there’s a balance, right? Well, here, I look at it as like data and your brain, like data does not replace your brain. Like you still, you still need a human brain available data, just like robots do not replace humans. But if you use these robots accurately, they can allow the humans to perform better. Yep, right now.

Chris Davis 14:27
Yeah, exactly. assist us, right. So the data is an assistant, a strong assistant to our brain. You still need this man. This, this is the master decision maker. And then the data jumps in and assistant and you mentioned earlier, some of the pros and cons of both. I wanted to talk through some of the pros and cons of data, data informed and then human intuition.

Tim Cakir 14:52
I mean, maybe not about data informed human intuition, if you don’t mind but more about data informed versus data driven, because I think that they they

Tim Cakir 15:00
The Forum has the human into intuition Anyways, guys why we want to do this and form. I mean, what I believe definitely the first one that I gave, you know, is a pro at some point of doing this based on these decisions based on cold and hard facts, that’s very data driven. And sometimes that’s an amazing product, right? But sometimes focusing on the big picture and understand the human approach, you’re selling to humans, you’re marketing to humans, understanding them, their emotions, their the feelings, the qualitative data, and not just the quantitative data, that’s huge. But then you’re gonna have, you’re definitely going to have some cons and data informed. And you know, I accept that, it’s that you can have too many inputs, right? And that can go to conference, right? Because if you suddenly ask 50 people, right, we all have different gut feelings, we all have different, different ideas about things, right. So that’s what that’s when you have to revisit your data for sure. And this is one of the big cons about data informed, for sure. But this is why we’re trying to also do different methodologies on prioritizing things after you’ve made decisions and so on, right, and trying to get data again, somehow. And also, I think data informed sometime it definitely influences and manipulates that decision, right? Because that decision of that data was, let’s say, you know, a, and then because we’re chatting all together and stuff, and then we’re going to do B, right? That could be a con. But if you start thinking about the cons of data driven, as I mentioned, you can miss the big picture, right? And missing, the big picture is worse, right? Because the data tells you this this week or this month, and you act on it. But in three months, you know, that could have been much better if you didn’t act on it then. Right? Why? Because it was the summer season, and you’re an e commerce and you sell well in in in Christmas, right. So seasonality, you know, demand this kind of things. And as I said, pandemic, or any world situations, you know, news and stuff like that. These are not very data driven things, right. So we have to be informed about them look at our data, but also a couple of other things that I think are very important on data driven. It’s especially since we’re talking marketing with you, it’s you know, if we’re doing a B testing, and you know, multivariate testing, yes, let’s go data driven. I have no problem about that, you know, but if you’re going to bring new ideas, innovation, something like that, please do not be data driven, be more data informed, so that you can have creativity and ideas and approaches because data, data driven approach doesn’t make your creative, right, it makes you just respond to what you see. So yeah, I think that the creativity, it’s something that was, until today, I think that we hired people, right, we spend a lot of money, a lot of salaries on amazing brains, as you mentioned, right. And then we put them in a box, and we’re like, here we go, you execute, read the data and just do that, well, that you can build an algorithm for that. And the algorithm could do that for much cheaper, I guarantee you, and the algorithm is not going to have emotion, it’s not gonna have a sick day, it’s not gonna feel bad or anything like that. Right? So so it’s going to do the job much better. Right? But the second that you’re going to create a new product that you’re going to learn something new, you know, and the data is maybe you have a little bit data or you have no no data, right? That’s where you have to really look out there inform yourself with qualitative and quantitative, right, the quantitative are sure, but we’re forgetting about qualitative as well. Right? We forget about asking our user, our customers, how do you feel about this? Right? And they’ll tell you their feelings. And if you ask them, then you know that data that was telling you something else, but suddenly the people are telling you something else? I think that’s super important. And a lot of people will tell you don’t trust what your customer says sometimes, right? They will say that, because that data thing, right? But if 50 100 customer says the same thing, and then you’ve informed yourself with data, and you as a leader, as a marketing manager, or whoever, you you were taking that decision, you’ve been informed by data you’ve had also qualitative data from from your users from your customers. It’s your time to be creative, and get your gut feeling in place and make a decision with that.

Chris Davis 19:09
Yeah, as you’re talking tim, dare I say that data driven to me is almost like,I don’t want to say lazy because it takes effort to get the data. But it’s lazy on your brain per se, right? Because there’s critical thinking that’s involved. When when you give this example of a startup and they look at the trends and you know, the data and they like and they’re like, hey, I want to do this because it’s there. Right? And they miss engaging with the market, seeing where people really are outside of the data. Instead of saying, hey, the data says it let’s do it. Let the data inform you because the second you introduced that word inform your brain is now responsible for the ultimate decision making

Chris Davis 20:00
You know and I think that is so critical that I feel what I’ve seen time and time again, just in the marketplace. And especially in today’s age where your news is fed to you, however you like it. People start with a narrative and then wrap facts around it, right? Like they people, they tell you what you want to hear, and you can easily listen to only what you want to hear. I think that there’s a inherent laziness, and an action in that, right that people are looking for the easy way, make my decision for me, tell me what I should be thinking.

Tim Cakir 20:38
I know what you’re saying that, Chris, because if you take the word driven or inform, right, driven, something’s driving you right? So as you said, You’re quite lazy, right? It’s because that thing drives you to that decision. So you’re not even making the decision. Yeah, it’s automatically made for you, you’re driven by it, right? And when you informed suddenly go one level above that, right? And you’re like, Okay, I’ve got the data, the data is telling me this, but hold on, I am smarter than the data because I can have data, I can have human emotions, I can have feelings, I can get my colleagues, I can look at the market. Right. And I will make the decision in that. I am sure how many companies should have been closed? Because if they were data driven, right, because in the beginning, they got it? And they’re not Oh, yeah, there’s not working out? Let’s close it. Right, let’s let’s shut the company down. And they haven’t, right. And they became massive companies today, because there had a leader who was a you know what, I am creative. And I believe in what I want to do. And I’m going to go and do it. Right, we do have these crazy leaders and these crazy leaders are the leaders that we should really look up to, right, because you know, something, oh, no more cash flow, or something is telling me Okay, my users are our minimum 10% signups or whatever, right? Maybe that’s the case, by maybe in six months, things are gonna change and the market is gonna need it. Or, you know, again, there’s going to be events in the world, and you know, something’s gonna happen, and we’re gonna need that. And suddenly, you know, that leader who kept his business suddenly starts making success. But the leader who is very technical, sometimes who like looks at data and is very driven and is like, that’s it, I make a decision. they close the business six months later, they might they might be upset, because they might look, Oh, I missed the boat. Right? I missed that boat.

Chris Davis 22:19
Yeah, I read a book, from john Maxwell, who does a lot of leadership training. And it was, I think it was like the art of decision making.

Chris Davis 22:29
And I don’t remember, like, Wherefore, because I’ve read a lot of his books. But the reason I bring it up is because at some point in my marketing career, I realized just how valuable the ability to make a decision was, and how many people run away from it. So I wish Tim, I had this language back then. Because it would have been so permissible for me to continue to allow my brain to do the heavy thinking that it needed to do, and let the data assist my brain instead of an approach that I’ve taken earlier in my career. And I think many people do it, you have a landing page, it’s converting you say, hey, everything’s working? Well. It’s like, well, is it?

Chris Davis 23:19
You know, like, Can we take that information? and think critically on it? And I just feel that, that is the the part that a lot of people are missing. Because there’s such a broad stroke of data driven, data driven, let the data determined that. And let me just be honest, I may have played a part.

Chris Davis 23:40
In this when I think about the past, some of the podcasts and even some of the the curriculum that I’ve created. It’s just like, no, don’t make any decision that the data doesn’t support. When essentially what I, what I would reframe that to, if every listeners now I’m not putting a flag in the sand here and saying, I will do better from this point forward. It’s really No, you’re still making the decision. Let the data assist you in making the best decision, you know.

Tim Cakir 24:13
And Chris, I mean, you touched up about decision making, how many decisions do we make a day, right? We make so many decisions a day, right? This is why some amazing leaders, right? So they wear one collared t shirt every day, because they didn’t want to make that decision in the morning. They wanted to keep that brain power for more important decisions. I want to add something to that. Okay. A lot of us, we make so many decisions, and we don’t even have a record of it. Right? So a decision journal is something new that I’m putting into my life, right? If I’m making a decision, I put I put it on my notion page right notion is like a note taking platform. And there I have a decision journal. When I made the decision why I made that decision, what could be the risks of that decision, right and I’ll go look at look at

Tim Cakir 25:00
Next month or something be like, oh, what that decision good? Was that decision? Right was informed enough, and so on and like that you’re even making your decision better and better and better every time because you’re learning from your past decisions. And, and I think a decision journal is a huge, huge, huge thing nowadays. And looking back at it, learning from our failures, learning from our decisions that were good or bad, is very important learning.

Chris Davis 25:26
Yeah, absolutely. That that decision journal is, I think that’s a really good idea. Because we tend to, you know, be very selective in our memory. Yeah. You know, either only remember the good ones like, Oh, yeah, this always works out like no actually doesn’t always work out. or bad, like, oh, it just never works. And you look at and you’re like, No, actually, when I do these things, I make really good decisions. So I think that, you know, as we come to a close here, and I’m looking at growth, right business growth through the lens of automation,

Chris Davis 26:07
the automation is there to help support your decision making, right like, you have to start until the software, what you want it to do, once you do that, it is now making those decisions for you in an automated fashion. The output of those decision making that have that automated decision making, we call it logic, is data. So now I have open rates, I have show upgrades, I have closing rates. But just because I have that data does not mean I need, I can either give it a green light and say, Hey, everything’s working, or panic, my brain still needs to be active to think critically. And, Tim, I can’t be

Chris Davis 26:51
I cannot

Chris Davis 26:53
be against reaching out and getting human to human connection to fill in any gaps, that the data doesn’t inform me.

Tim Cakir 27:05
And, Chris, I mean, I, you know, I think that we could talk hours and hours.

Tim Cakir 27:11
But I want to, I want to add something quicker, quickly to what we said just just earlier on. And our brains, they are not made to store data. Neither right, we’re not a storage. We’re not a storage, I I’ve worked with so many CEOs, I’ve coached I’ve consulted for their company, and so on. And then I’m like, Oh, so where’s this information, whereas these, I do that it’s all in my brain. Alright, awesome. But that brain has to be a bit more empty. So you can make these decisions. So you have the CPU power, right? To make these decisions. And this is something that I really, really, really want everybody to, to think about that and to build themselves a second brain as I think Tiago forte said it right. It’s like,

Tim Cakir 27:55
not storing that information, but putting it on a notion on a paper on a page or whatever. The second, you put that information, actually, your brain knows it’s there. But it’s not going to know all the details of the information. So that’s going to create a little bit more CPU power right in your brain a bit more RAM. Right? So those, those gigabytes, and your brain can actually work on making that decision in the best way possible, and not trying to remember everything. And this is why we love data, because data gives us this, this approach of driving us over something but then we stop a second, and we’re not alright, I remember I put this information from my past decisions, you know, from the past campaigns. Let me read that again. Let me look at that data again. Okay, let me make that decision. Now we have so much more brain power to make that decision.

Chris Davis 28:42
And you know, as jumping out, gosh, Tim, this is crazy. We could we could just keep going back

Chris Davis 28:47
to the lightbulb keeps coming up. There’s discipline man discipline required, because we’re in the information age, and all types of data, whether you’re ready, looking for it, whatever the case may be, it’s all there ready to just be fed to you. And guess what? It’s just taking up storage, you can find yourself thinking about, I watched a video on Facebook the other day with like rats stuck in a car, something like that, that occupy some of my brain during my, like, highest quality time that I do work in the morning. So there’s so this discipline, to not just get things out because you’re right, our brain is the worst storage. You know, if we can get it and put it on paper, our brain accepts that, hey, it exists somewhere and when it’s time to rethink about it or bring it back. I’m ready. So it’s it’s getting it out of your brain. And it’s also an act of protecting it from getting in,

Chris Davis 29:50
you know, as well, because data is coming from everywhere, man.

Tim Cakir 29:55
Yeah, cuz we were lacking data back, you know, for 15 years or so when we were

Tim Cakir 30:00
Lacking, and now we have too much of it, which is great, but sometimes not great. And this is why I’m building my company, Chris, you know, it’s because I want to my companies is to be able to automate everything apart the human creativity, the human feeling the human idea generation, right. So I’m going to automate most of the things that I can enact for a company to be to be SaaS. So for companies to do strategical goal setting, and to do prioritization, and so on, I’m going to try to automate the most I can, right, earning and technologies and so on, but I will focus having the human creativity, the human brain in the center at all times, this is how we got where we got today. Right? It’s by being creative, by by having these, these crazy thoughts and these crazy ideas and testing new things. That’s what brought us here. And that I pledge, you know, to the businesses around the world, that’s, you know, I’m trying to build something so that we, we even highlight the human creativity, right, we bring that up, right? Still with being data informed, of course, and try to automate everything else, right and give the machines give the robots, the jobs that are, are repetitive, that are low cognitive power, and high cognitive power, it should be our brain kicking in. I love it, man, just make us better decision makers, man, using technology to help us make better decisions. And I don’t think there’s a person on earth that would not like to be making better decisions. You know, this is your journal. This is internal everybody. Here this?

Tim Cakir 31:40
Is everything will tell man, this has been great. Thank you for coming on. I know you mentioned it earlier. And just to make sure if it’s the same morphus change, where can people go to find out more about you and the company that just, I mean, I’m not going to promote my company, I’m not here to sell I was here to chat to you. So my company is called one that IO anyways, if you’re if you’re a manager director in in quite enterprise companies, it’s the tool for you. But I haven’t used that sir. I have a blog, where I talk and I preach about the stuff, you know, I tried to be as vocal as I can. So you can find that on Timcakir.com There, you can sign up for my newsletter, you can find my articles, I suggest different podcasts, which yours is definitely there as well. Yeah, of course. And, and and, you know, also LinkedIn, you know, I’m trying to be very vocal about this. I’ve given myself this mission in life now. It’s to really try to humanize businesses try to organize decision making, you know, and and just to close off, I’ll give my latest motto in life is, you know, like, every time I open my computer, this is what it writes on its track the past, order the present, design the future, right. And that’s what I’m trying to do everything. I’m not very good at it yet. Don’t get me wrong, but that’s what I try to do every day. Chris, thank you so much for inviting me. great conversation.

Chris Davis 33:09
Very powerful. Thank you for sharing that model, Tim, and we’ll have the links to your website, in the show notes, everybody.

Chris Davis 33:17
Wow. I love it. Say Say that model one more time, before we close track the past or the present, design the future design the future. That’s it. All right, man, Tim, appreciate.

Chris Davis 33:31
Chris, thank you so much. It’s been an absolute pleasure. All right. Thank you for listening to this episode, I hope. Hope we provided more clarity than confusion, I hope you can clearly see, okay, I get it. I’ve got this feeling. And I’m going to trust it may not have data to back it up. Or maybe even the data may be saying something else. But I know what I’ve seen. I’ve observed I’ve been doing my due diligence. Listen, we all can’t get it right all the time. And the data is not always right. The data is always subject to interpretation. So as many of these decision making factors and in training and education you can get around it, the better you’ll be the most important piece is whatever your decision is, just don’t leave it as it’s the right decision. The second you make it allow yourself to be wrong, allow time and data to prove otherwise. Right? Let’s not just get so, so sold on one way that it has to work, nothing has to work, except what works. Alright, so who needs to hear this? Do me a favor, share this with that analytical marketer, the one who lives in spreadsheets, and then also share it with your CEO friend who’s just always got a hunch that that just always feels this is right, because there needs to be balance. All right, and if you found value in today’s episode, make sure that you share it. And if you’re not subscribed, everybody first time listeners. Repeat listeners, everybody, now’s your time to subscribe and leave that five star rating and review right here at automation brains.

Chris Davis 35:00
We’re dedicated to training digital marketing professionals to become automation service providers. These are marketing professionals that understand that market the marketing technology, landscape, business strategy and modeling marry those two together to deploy automated sales and marketing systems in your small business for immediate and rapid growth. Okay, this is a neat, this is a huge need right now, as all businesses are trying to learn how to capitalize on this online opportunity, and the trends that people are now exuding online. What we’ve done is we’ve made it easy for you to get access to everything that you need. If you go to Allsystemsgopodcast.com you’ll not only get access to the latest episodes, but you’ll also be able to inquire about my amplify my automation package. That’s that’s concentrated on helping you put automated marketing and sale systems in your business or your clients over the next six months. Okay, so our dedication, if you want to capitalize on that allsystemsgopodcast.com. We also have a free Facebook group. You can request to be a guest on this podcast or refer someone to be a guest and any resource or training anything that was mentioned on the podcast, one URL to remember gets you access to it all all the time. And that’s allsystemsgopodcast.com. Thank you for taking the time to listen to this episode. And until next time, I see you online. automate responsibly, my friends