Finding the Right People to Grow Your Business

Narrator 0:00
You’re listening to the off systems go podcast, the show that teaches you everything you need to know to put your business on autopilot. Learn how to deploy automated marketing and sell systems in your business the right way with your host, the professor of automation himself and founder of automation bridge, Chris Davis.

Chris Davis 0:31
Welcome to another episode of The all systems go podcast, where we invite startup founders and digital marketers, marketers to share software and strategies to use to grow and scale your business. I’m your host, Chris L. Davis, the founder of automation bridge. And in this episode, you know, I, I kind of coined the phrase, let me not say Ken, I coined the phrase in the automation space doing things the right way. And I talk about that a lot. But it’s hard to do things the right way with the wrong people. So I want to take some time today in this episode, and talk about finding the right people for your business. And this is this is something that I find myself, everybody’s included in this process. And it’s just a matter of where you are, when I was more junior in my career, I found myself on kind of like that initial trial, hey, I’ll hire this guy and see, people were paying for my knowledge. For my learning, not my knowledge. They were I was essentially getting a free education on behalf of my clients. And I moved move the needle a little bit, and then you know, someone else they would bring on and so on and so forth. So over time, I feel like if I use a football analogy in American football for for my international folks, where every play, the purpose is to get closer and closer to the goal line, right. And you have some players on the team that can cover more yardage. And then you do have every now and then a Hail Mary, you don’t want to rely on this. But you do have the Hail Mary where you just kind of throw it, close your eyes, cross your fingers and just hope that it’s it gets cut, and that you score. But for the most part, what you’re looking for is someone nice and steady. That can get you 10 yards, 20 yards, five yards, 15 yards, just keep picking up yardage. And that’s what that’s what I’m referring to. When I talk about the right people, that process of your business going five yards, 10 yards

Chris Davis 2:43
20,000 50,000, closer to that revenue goal. How do you find the people that can allow that can empower you to do that, right? So again, it’s an iterative process. And we see this, we see this with jobs. We see this with dating, you see it with dating, you see it with experts and freelancers. And, and what I’m, what I’m referring to is it’s two sides to this thing, right? You don’t necessarily, let me say this, you don’t necessarily find the right thing, or the right person, let’s say you either learned through the process, what’s good for you, you didn’t start knowing and through the process, you learned in that case, experience is your teacher, right. And then on the other side, you start it with something that was good. And you learned how to appreciate it, hopefully, right? You learned how to appreciate it. And that’s the you know, you don’t miss a good thing till it’s gone. Type dynamic. And that’s wisdom as your teacher, that means I didn’t need to lose this thing to appreciate it. Right where sometimes experience your you learn through loss, as well as gain and in again, no one is better than the other our life is consistent of it consists of both. Alright, so maybe you’re maybe you’re the person that met your high school sweetheart and married them. Right? You knew Listen, you’re the one. I don’t need anybody else. Right? Or maybe you’re the one that had a few heartbreaks broke a few hearts made a few mistakes here and there. And after all, you’re like, Okay, I know exactly the type of person that I want to spend the rest of my time with, and I’m not dating anymore. Any anything else? Well, the same is said if we flip this and talk about freelancers, right, talk about hiring people for your company or organization. And the reality is, when you start out, you don’t necessarily know everything that you need to know to get the most out of the people that you hire. So you’re either going to hire someone who’s more experienced and you maybe you don’t know how to Appreciate that, right you don’t, you just don’t have that experience. Or you hire somebody who’s more junior, and you expect more out of them than they can give you. And in both cases, one, you have to slow down the other one, you have to speed up, whatever the case is, it’s important that you identify where you’re at. And where the person that you’re looking for is that, and I say this, because when I think of my hiring process, in my business for companies, I’ve been pretty solid with hiring because it’s very easy for me to come in, identify strengths, weaknesses, gaps, right gap analysis, and just pay attention to people’s strengths, and understand what level of person I’m looking for. So that company has history that allows me to learn, I can learn from their previous experience, then use wisdom going forward. So for my my business, it hasn’t always been that way. So I’ve gone through vas, I’ve gone through multiple types of talent. And some of them rightfully so should have left, I burned them out, I put so much on their plate, because I can move at such a rapid rate in automation myself, I can build a landing page, set up an automation, do some personalization, like I can do all of this within an hour. So then I asked you to do it, and then asked you to do some other stuff. And by the end of the day, their eyes are crossed their heads overwhelmed. Yeah, they should have and I learned a lesson, right? So in that, what I’m saying is, my process of finding the right person has been more from experience, right? Because I’m trying to figure out what works for my business. And it’s easy to write someone off. That’s the easiest, laziest thing to do, oh, they weren’t a good fit, I understand, hire slow fire fast, I get all of that. I trust me, I do. But you also have to factor in the part that you played, maybe you weren’t as clear, maybe maybe they needed more time, and you have false expectations. Maybe that right person just needed some growth, right, an opportunity to show up as shine. And maybe just maybe you need to get more clear with what you need. So the right person becomes this blend of you knowing what you need. And then knowing how to satisfy will say that need are meet the need, in a way where equal value is understood and exchanged. So in context and context of business, sometimes it takes the clients to go get abused, before they appreciate your approach and expertise. So if you’re that person that’s come in, and you’re like, I’m just trying to tell them how to do it, they won’t listen to me. They, they, I’m trying to help this company, I see the light, I see the way and they just won’t. It doesn’t work. They just won’t open up to me. Sometimes it takes

Chris Davis 8:01
that client to just learn the hard way, learn through experience, and then they’ll come back and realize, oh, this is why right have we all had that this is why client where they challenge you on every step. And when I say challenge you I don’t want to make them sound like they’re like bad people, they maybe they’ve got a control aspect to them. Maybe they’re used to people operating the way that they deem instead of following other people’s process. It could be a variety of things. But it comes off as a negative experience from the person delivering the service right? Now that person, you could try your hardest and say you know what, hold on. This is why we don’t send emails to the entire list. Now I know you’ve got 200,000 contacts. But if I were to tell you only 2500 are truly opening, and we’re wasting over 30,000 emails on the other that’s really damaging. Just trust me, let’s just send to this segment to build our reputation. And then we could start to expand out. I just don’t understand why can we send to the whole list. I have friends who who have who sin way more emails than me. And they’re just fine. What’s going on? Right? We’ve all had that questioning of process questioning of the operations. And for those people, sometimes it takes that client to go off, get abused, hit hit their head, scrape their knees before they come back and really appreciate the approach. Right? And then the other times, you know, they are aware and they’re mindful while working with you and see the value. I think that’s the that’s the the circumstance that we all hope for. Right? Is that you’re working with someone and they’re giving you your flowers while you’re there. They’re telling Taking time out to appreciate and say, Hey, listen, Chris, before you. We didn’t have any clue what we were going to do. And all of a sudden, we’ve got ultimate clarity. Oh, my goodness, we see things differently now.

Chris Davis 10:15
We don’t know where we will be without you. Right? It’s a great feeling. But But let me add some context to this. I don’t want to I don’t want to just fluff fluff your head up, if you’re that expert, understand the people before you that set the table. Okay, and this is for this. This podcast is for both the digital marketer and the founder, just just follow me here. That founder has hired a freelancer before maybe it didn’t work out. But that Freelancer did get some yardage, right? Maybe they hired another consultant and lost the artists. But they learned, right, so now they hired another one. And they got even more yardage. Though they’re nowhere near the goal line, there has been stuff put in place that you get to build upon to take them further. And if there’s anything that I’ve prided myself in doing in this industry, is it I think it’s easy to talk about what went wrong with a previous agency, a previous consultant, a previous service provider, that’s easy. That’s easy. So I never, and when I say never, if I’ve done it, it’s been unintentional. But I never allow somebody’s bad experience, to be a reason or justification or a means of me puffing myself up. If anything, I’d like to go and see what that previous person did. Because whether it worked or not, I can usually find some gems, I can usually find some stuff that it was like, Oh, they were actually right in this assessment. They just didn’t know how to execute it. But since I know how to execute it, we’ll be able to go further. Right? And it’s a maybe it’s a humility approach, right? I never want to be above gets so high that I’ve arrived, I can’t listen, I can’t learn. Right. And it has served me well. It has served me well. So I know from the founders, you’re just like, oh, I had to get rid of them, I had to get rid of them. I mean, I’ve seen I’ve seen cases where people are using like spreadsheets or other software for CRMs. And my initial knee jerk reaction is Yuck, who is the idiot, that’s my initial internal, I don’t let that come out. And in my community, we speak freely. So I have safe places to go and express my disgust and frustration with such an approach. But then I’ll go into the, I’ll go into the spreadsheet, I’ll go into their software platform, and I’ll see what they were doing. And see all I see what you were trying to execute. You just didn’t have the acumen to get it there. And I’ll take bits and parts from that, because it’s already in the business, those parts are already in the business or have already been exposed to the business. And a lot of times, if I could just tweak that a bit with my acumen, we could get a quick win. And that’s what every business wants on both sides as the consultant you want to be able to get that quick win. And as the founder, you want that quick win given to you. So I like to highlight this because it is an iterative process, you’re going to hire more than one person for the same job, you’re going to need to have multiple consultants, multiple employees, multiple human resources to get the job done. If if instead of looking at it as Oh, they didn’t do everything we expected, see what boxes they check and see what ignorance is they exposed. And that allows you to go into the next hire, it allows you to go into the next engagement, that much more informed. Right? So this is the dichotomy, right? It’s the two sides of finding the right people is I need to know what I what I want. I need to know what I’m looking for. Let me tell you, I’ve got a buddy.

Chris Davis 14:17
Probably the most process driven individual, and I’ve learned a lot just from from how he operates and how stable and structured he is. And when you come into his business, he’s got I’m not talking about SOPs. SOPs are good to like follow Hey, this is what we do. These are like extremely detailed process docs with ultimate clarity and context of why you want something. Now he’s able to get like expert results from the most novice person at times, like he could he could hire somebody on Fiverr and it looks like they were somebody hired for from An agency or something? Now, why does it work, because he’s taken the time to learn exactly what he needs. And he knows how to communicate exactly what it looks like. A good example is when I’m when I’m working with web web designers from our website, I’m extremely cramped talking about colors. I’m recording loom videos and walking through other other websites, like I really liked this, you see how that whitespace is used. I’m trying to have this look and feel, but I have this content don’t necessarily know how to bridge them. Sometimes when they provide a design to me, I don’t I don’t have Photoshop or anything like that. But I could do like a poor man’s markup, pulling up the graphic on my iPad. And in like an art program like procreate or pencil or paper, whatever is kind of thing is paper. And just kind of like mocking it up and saying no, this is this is the direction it first off the service provider. Is it II lated. Because it’s like, Oh, I see because you don’t want them spending their time spinning their wheels, trying to figure out which you are lazily not telling them. So now you’re getting this polished product from a service provider who’s not charging you polished money to do so. And I’m just mentioning one benefit of knowing exactly what you want. Right now the flip side is, you’ve got to be able to know when a consultant is learning on the job. And when they’re leading with acumen. Right, this is part, this is again, this is the combo I’m I’m over here as the founder learning what I need. And then on the other side, I’m trying to identify if they have the chops to meet this need that I’m trying to identify that I need. You see it? It’s a cycle, right? And there is no, this is not a podcast to say, right? Wrong. I’m just trying to help you on navigate, I want to help the consultant stop operating with imposter syndrome. And I want the founder to have more realistic expectations around who you’re hiring, and how far they’re going to be able to take you. I can’t tell you how many instances I have come in. And they’ve got an overworked marketer, marketing manager doing everything, really, they should be a CMO with the amount of responsibilities but they have the title of a marketing manager. And they are a junior level. And I could tell that the founder just threw marketing on them, because they needed to get it off their plate, or they needed to do some level of marketing. Now when I come into those situations, I’m not going to try to show up or one of that marketer. I’m trying to empower them. Because they may be the exact person that company needs. But they need guidance. They need help they need resources. Right. So I’ll come into those situations and see, okay, how far have you been able to take this company? All right, great. Well, not It’s not how far now that I’m here. How far can I take them? Now that I’m added to the team? Even if it’s in a consultant capacity? We’re still a team right? Now that I’m here collectively. Now how far can we go? And I pride myself on getting ultimate yardage. Right? I pride myself on those plays, 30 yards, 50 yards, scoring touchdowns, that’s what I want to do. That’s what I that’s, that’s my metric a lot of times. So when you when you’re thinking about, you know, I need to know my knees just as well as the marketer that I’m hiring needs to have skills. What does that look like when it comes to building a marketing team? And what to expect? Well, well, just let me share with you I did a, I did

Chris Davis 18:42
a training. I’m losing track of all of these communities I do trainings in, I believe it was Dan Martell, SAS Academy, I believe so correct me if I’m wrong, somebody sent me an email and be like, Crystal was actually our art community. But it was how to build an effective marketing team. And in this presentation, roomful of startup founders. In this presentation, I walked through the makeup of a startup team of a marketing team for your average startup, right to stay scrappy, and you know, get things done efficiently. And in that there was a lot of light bulbs going off on the people required. There’s not just a marketer required there other role players that you need to run a highly effective marketing team. However, what I’m talking about on this podcast is how do you realistically build that marketing team? Because starting out with with no marketing, you’re going to need somebody who’s strategic, then you’re going to need somebody who’s good at implementing just those two alone. We haven’t even touched like web stuff, copywriting, graphic design, any of that. We haven’t touched any of that which are all part of a marketing team. By the way. Just the strategy of marketing In the implementation, it’s iterative. It really is because your strat your marketing strategy, strategy will change. When you have nothing is kind of like, hey, let’s do this thing, when you start doing that thing, and it’s working, you start getting bigger vision and bigger eyes, and that marketer may have been able to take you, if it’s 10, as a result, they may have been able to take you from one to four, that does not mean that they’re a bad marketer, or they did something wrong. They’ve just exhausted their level of their capabilities. Right? Now, of course, you can send them to training, you can send them to communities and all of that to expand that, which would, what I would tell you, if you’re working with somebody, and they’re getting yardage, 510 15, stick with them. And if you meet somebody else that can get you the 2030, just add them to the team don’t replace them, right? It’s not a rule of thumb, but it’s what I try to do, right? So now sometimes, what if that consoling them, what if they just do level level four work there, their specialty is taking you from one to four. If we embrace this, look how much better our relationships will be Win Win team building, if you brought on a consultant and consultant said, hey, look, I’m really good at taking you from nothing to an online presence on one channel. Once we’ve done that, then we usually have you bring in somebody else to take it further. That’s like subbing out your running back, that was made for like short yardage and putting in the one that can run further or run fast or is more agile, I don’t know why I have the the American football analogy, but just roll with me through this. I’m sorry, for those of you that don’t watch sports, but it’s, you think you still understand what I’m saying, right? It’s the handoff the relay, hey, I can take you 200 meters. Now here you go, you take the next 200. This is how I believe business should be ran this way. When you prepare for a position in your company, whether it’s a freelance or employee, it’s you can create it to be more plug and play. You’re not creating one position for that one person to do everything. That’s what breaks everything that I’m telling you today. If you’re trying to get one person to do every single thing, and pay them to do every single thing, so you’re really paying one salary for four people. That’s the part that’s not going to work. Okay, that’s not going to work in what I’m what I’m mentioning here. So with that being said, we’re talking about finding the right people how to build that marketing team. What does it look like? It’s okay, it’s sometimes you just you just need a a foot, a meter a yard, right? You just need a win. Hey, right now, I just need somebody that knows how to take my video and make it into reels. So we could just start having a presence. Well, that person does it. And they’ve exhausted their capabilities. Great. Now you’ve got that in place, and it’s exposed new needs, go find the next in the next, what you will, what you will find is this. This is where you end up everybody, you end up in a position where you’re truly ready to bring on an expert, somebody that’s worth investing the 510 25k into, because your business is now at a point where doing so will yield a big result.

Chris Davis 23:36
Right? You’re not going to be able to do that out the gate. Even if you have money. I see founders all the time they raise capital, millions in the bank, and they want to go hire the top expert. You’re only going to get now that expert can take you the whole field, they can take you from zero to a million. But they’re going to need help that usually an expert of that capacity is not going to be building they’re not going to be implementing even myself I contract out to I bring on help that I’ve trained. You know, I’m not the one going in there building because at some point you’re going to be paying a premium for my hourly rate or project base rate. And too I just don’t do it. You’d be better off having access to my brain if your company is in the right position, right. So you use you use these freelancers and marketing assistants and consultants and all of that, to not just figure out what you need but also move your business forward to get to a point where you can truly hire and bring on an expert. I have been put in the fortunate positions I’ll say blessed to be able to work with few startups. This is outside of Active Campaign and LeadPages that most People know me by. But I’m more private startups. And I tell you, it’s been a joy, being able to come in at the capacity that my acumen is at and be able to make an immediate impact, because they’ve moved the business as far as they could working with everyone else. And I come in, build off of what’s in place, and take it to the finish line. That’s, that’s the most comfortable position I’ve been in now. I’ve had startups where I’ve taken them from zero. Inception, worked on the business plan stayed overnight, up late, eatin falling asleep, waking up, where are we at on the business plan, projections and all of that, to raise capital, to start to build the team and start building processes. I’ve done it don’t enjoy it as much. But I’ve done it, right. So I pride myself, again, in being that person that you can bring on when you need the major yardage. That doesn’t make me better than any other consultant that, let’s say has mastered just getting the small yardage or the smaller, the smaller victories, what I want to do is just shaped context around this whole conversation, so that you understand. It’s a process. And if you stop on the founder side, if you stop trying to hire the perfect person, and just focus on the right person, for right now, consultants, if you stop trying to be everything, freelancers, if you stop trying to be everything, you won’t have to worry about the imposter syndrome, understand where your skills can take a business. And that’s what you sell. You do that well enough, you’ll slowly start to add to how far you can take a business and what you can do. But it is a process. And let me just say we’re all practitioners, we’re all growing together. Even doctors have have patients that die on that operating table, you’re not going to get it right every time. And I don’t honestly think people expect that. I think what people expect is if you don’t get it, right, that you own up to it, accountability, and then you ideate provide solutions. Don’t just Oh, wasn’t me, oh, I don’t know what happened on it. And they come up with solutions to work work towards, right. They just want to know that you’re responsible and you’re going to put the level of effort in. Okay. So with that being said, where do you find such talent? Okay, because I do not want anybody to listen to this. And especially if you’re an HR, I don’t I don’t want this to come off. Like oh my gosh, she’s just telling people to just have low standards, go hire people work with them, and just settle for less? No, no, don’t. Again, I’m all about the slow, hire fast fire.

Chris Davis 27:46
Run your DISC assessment. Have them talk to multiple people in your organization. Get your spouse involved, that knows nothing about the company, but can read people really well like No, run your checks and balances. Don’t get me wrong. And you want to get the best, you always want to get the best talent. Okay. All I’m telling you is the best talent isn’t always the person that can throw the the winning pass on the first first go. So where do you find where do you find some of these people? I’m gonna let you know where I found some and where I prepare some to be found. Okay. masterminds, I think I think quiet is kept for those of you who have not joined a mastermind or are not part of one, or have not been part of one. In the past. I guess that’s one of the same joining and being part of one. You’re you’re missing out on a huge opportunity, huge opportunity community just in itself. But masterminds are intentional with bringing the minds together and solving higher level of problems. And what I found in every single mastermind that I’ve been a part of and am aware of, is there become synergistic opportunities within it. You have one person that comes in and says, Hey, I’m really good at ads than another person that comes in says, Hey, I’m really good at content Wait a minute, ads person, I need content, hey, content person, I need ads, right? This happens frequently the synergy and masterminds. And then usually because there’s an investment, you get to rub shoulders with people who have just as much skin in the game as you. So you may need to invest in a mastermind to start to get exposed to a whole new level of synergy and a network, right. A network of resources Second, our programs. My first program I purchased online was Brendon Bouchard, total product blueprint. The second one was Jeff Walker’s Product Launch Formula. It was in a community in Jeff Walker’s Product Launch Formula in his program that I started to really market myself as someone who could do email and automation, right. I didn’t I had a website. I was blown. I was getting no traction was until I joined that program, where when you’re in a program with somebody else, there’s just an inherent level of vulnerability that’s there, you’re out, you’ve already said, Look, I’m in this program to learn something. Right. So everybody is on the same page in terms of learning, in terms of what they want out of the program. So those are good. And actually programming communities go hand in hand. Not always, some people have programs and not communities. But a lot of programs these days have communities. But paid communities is what I’m talking about. No knock against free communities. But again, no skin in the game. Now, it could be anybody. If it’s free, you really have no control over the avatar, right? The target audience, because in order to make money online or in business, you have to target someone. So the fact that somebody paid for something is already your first sign that, okay, there’s a certain type of person in this community. And communities are great because it allows you to nurture build relationships at a safe pace. Some people want to jump right in, Hey, guys, I’m new to the community looking for blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Some people kind of like to ease their way in communities, hugely, hugely effective events, especially now that COVID is subsiding and everything is opening up. Events are great places to meet people in person. There’s nothing like shaking somebody’s hand looking at him in the eye and seeing their authenticity. Right. Events are great referrals. Referrals are great. If you are tapped into the if you’re if they’re coming from the right person. I want to I want to shout out somebody in my community Kuranda Khurana does a really good job with vetting. She does a really good job at vetting people and referring them to my my business. Really good job. The leads that come through her are pretty solid. Along with it’s a few actually, I would say all of the all of my students that have referred somebody, it’s been a solid lead, right? And that’s because I prepare them. They know exactly what they’re who I’m looking for the type of people I work with. So referrals has an asterix, you don’t just ask, Hey, refer somebody that’s kind of like the old school marketing that a lot of service based businesses still do know.

Chris Davis 32:33
Prepare your referees so that they know how to get the how to get the right referrals. And then lastly, certification. Certification is is not it’s not always a given. But it’s a good starting point. I have a certification. Now I’ll say this. On the flip side, I’ve gone through other people’s certification. And let me just say this, I don’t know not no, not against Tina’s foresight. But she’s got a certification for IBM’s. And the website to find an OPM, I’ve had a bad experience with, I just have not been able to go through there. Most of the time, when you reach out to people on their website, they don’t respond and whatever the case may be, however, my OB PMS have been certified through her program. So though I may not be able to use the website, as I anticipated, the certification in itself is still a badge and a check that I say okay, well, at least they know what they’re doing. So this is why I created my certification. So that if you looked for a automation, somebody to do your automation automation service provider, you at least knew a starting point. And I’m not talking about like, Well, okay, I’ll try that. No, these are solid marketers, some of the top marketers in the industry, because one, they’ve been trained by me not fluffing my own self up. But what I’m saying is this. If they’ve been trained by me, that means I’ve taught them I’m a teachable person, which means they taught me which means I go back and teach them. Our community is one of that is that symbiotic growth, it I mean, I can’t explain it, but I’m so glad we have it. We share strategies, we share wins, clients, story struggles, just the other day, we were trying to figure out how to do something in the platform for one of the students clients, right. This is what you need. You need these types of resources to find these type of professionals easier. And then on the flip side, if you’re a digital marketer, you need to be a part of these things you need to go through pay for a program invest it, it’s going to just help you get those companies more yardage quicker. But don’t play the nickel and dime route because you become if both of you are nickel and diamond, you’re only going to be moving like one yard at a time looking at all of these other companies scoring touchdowns, running the full length of the of the field. This is what it takes. It takes a commitment on both sides. So So I hope that was helpful everybody. Again, you’re not looking for the perfect person, you’re just looking for the right person. And that is the person that can take you from wherever you are now to a defined point later. And then you keep looking for the next right person and the next and the next. Sometimes that right person is in your business for years, sometimes it’s months. Sometimes you learn to appreciate them when you have them. Sometimes you have to lose them to learn, Oh, wow. Some, sometimes you have to take on the load that they were carrying, that they may look so easy, in order for you to be like, Ooh, okay, I see. I see why we were paying them what we were paying them, what can we call them back, you got to be prepared that the as inflation increases, so do prices and value and worth. So you may not be able to get them for the same price. So I try to lean on appreciating people why you have them, making sure that you get the most out of them. And growing together. It’s where again, we’re all in this together trying to figure it out. Let’s be a little more patient gracious with one another. But let’s not lower the bar. Let’s not lower the standard. On the Digital Marketer side. Listen, they’ve got too many resources to be around here, quoting ridiculous prices and not having the acumen to back it up. There’s too many resources. My program is one, right. And I know of other programs, I know other tangential services that have programs and community leaders that teach stuff, right? So the digital marketer is not off the hook. On the founder side. Listen, at some point you, you have to stop doing blind money at stuff. Slow down, slow down, look at what’s worked. Look at what’s gone wrong with who you’ve worked with. In the past. Identify the holes if you can’t identify the holes, invest in somebody who can come in and do a gap analysis and identify the hole so you can make your next hire your best hire of the right person,

Chris Davis 36:59
not the perfect person. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of The all systems go podcast. If you enjoyed it, make sure that you’re subscribed at the time of recording the all systems go podcast is free to subscribe to, and it can be found in Apple podcast, Google podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts new episodes are released every Thursday. So make sure you’re subscribed so that you don’t miss out and while you’re at it, please leave us a five star rating and review to show some love but also to help future listeners more easily find the podcast so they can experience the value of goodness as well. We’ve compiled all resources mentioned on the podcast, as well as other resources that are extremely valuable and effective at helping you grow your marketing automation skills quickly. And you can access them all at allsystemsgopodcast.com Thanks again for listening and until next time, I see you online. Automate responsibly my friends

Narrator 0:00
You’re listening to the off systems go podcast, the show that teaches you everything you need to know to put your business on autopilot. Learn how to deploy automated marketing and sell systems in your business the right way with your host, the professor of automation himself and founder of automation bridge, Chris Davis.

Chris Davis 0:31
Welcome to another episode of The all systems go podcast, where we invite startup founders and digital marketers, marketers to share software and strategies to use to grow and scale your business. I’m your host, Chris L. Davis, the founder of automation bridge. And in this episode, you know, I, I kind of coined the phrase, let me not say Ken, I coined the phrase in the automation space doing things the right way. And I talk about that a lot. But it’s hard to do things the right way with the wrong people. So I want to take some time today in this episode, and talk about finding the right people for your business. And this is this is something that I find myself, everybody’s included in this process. And it’s just a matter of where you are, when I was more junior in my career, I found myself on kind of like that initial trial, hey, I’ll hire this guy and see, people were paying for my knowledge. For my learning, not my knowledge. They were I was essentially getting a free education on behalf of my clients. And I moved move the needle a little bit, and then you know, someone else they would bring on and so on and so forth. So over time, I feel like if I use a football analogy in American football for for my international folks, where every play, the purpose is to get closer and closer to the goal line, right. And you have some players on the team that can cover more yardage. And then you do have every now and then a Hail Mary, you don’t want to rely on this. But you do have the Hail Mary where you just kind of throw it, close your eyes, cross your fingers and just hope that it’s it gets cut, and that you score. But for the most part, what you’re looking for is someone nice and steady. That can get you 10 yards, 20 yards, five yards, 15 yards, just keep picking up yardage. And that’s what that’s what I’m referring to. When I talk about the right people, that process of your business going five yards, 10 yards

Chris Davis 2:43
20,000 50,000, closer to that revenue goal. How do you find the people that can allow that can empower you to do that, right? So again, it’s an iterative process. And we see this, we see this with jobs. We see this with dating, you see it with dating, you see it with experts and freelancers. And, and what I’m, what I’m referring to is it’s two sides to this thing, right? You don’t necessarily, let me say this, you don’t necessarily find the right thing, or the right person, let’s say you either learned through the process, what’s good for you, you didn’t start knowing and through the process, you learned in that case, experience is your teacher, right. And then on the other side, you start it with something that was good. And you learned how to appreciate it, hopefully, right? You learned how to appreciate it. And that’s the you know, you don’t miss a good thing till it’s gone. Type dynamic. And that’s wisdom as your teacher, that means I didn’t need to lose this thing to appreciate it. Right where sometimes experience your you learn through loss, as well as gain and in again, no one is better than the other our life is consistent of it consists of both. Alright, so maybe you’re maybe you’re the person that met your high school sweetheart and married them. Right? You knew Listen, you’re the one. I don’t need anybody else. Right? Or maybe you’re the one that had a few heartbreaks broke a few hearts made a few mistakes here and there. And after all, you’re like, Okay, I know exactly the type of person that I want to spend the rest of my time with, and I’m not dating anymore. Any anything else? Well, the same is said if we flip this and talk about freelancers, right, talk about hiring people for your company or organization. And the reality is, when you start out, you don’t necessarily know everything that you need to know to get the most out of the people that you hire. So you’re either going to hire someone who’s more experienced and you maybe you don’t know how to Appreciate that, right you don’t, you just don’t have that experience. Or you hire somebody who’s more junior, and you expect more out of them than they can give you. And in both cases, one, you have to slow down the other one, you have to speed up, whatever the case is, it’s important that you identify where you’re at. And where the person that you’re looking for is that, and I say this, because when I think of my hiring process, in my business for companies, I’ve been pretty solid with hiring because it’s very easy for me to come in, identify strengths, weaknesses, gaps, right gap analysis, and just pay attention to people’s strengths, and understand what level of person I’m looking for. So that company has history that allows me to learn, I can learn from their previous experience, then use wisdom going forward. So for my my business, it hasn’t always been that way. So I’ve gone through vas, I’ve gone through multiple types of talent. And some of them rightfully so should have left, I burned them out, I put so much on their plate, because I can move at such a rapid rate in automation myself, I can build a landing page, set up an automation, do some personalization, like I can do all of this within an hour. So then I asked you to do it, and then asked you to do some other stuff. And by the end of the day, their eyes are crossed their heads overwhelmed. Yeah, they should have and I learned a lesson, right? So in that, what I’m saying is, my process of finding the right person has been more from experience, right? Because I’m trying to figure out what works for my business. And it’s easy to write someone off. That’s the easiest, laziest thing to do, oh, they weren’t a good fit, I understand, hire slow fire fast, I get all of that. I trust me, I do. But you also have to factor in the part that you played, maybe you weren’t as clear, maybe maybe they needed more time, and you have false expectations. Maybe that right person just needed some growth, right, an opportunity to show up as shine. And maybe just maybe you need to get more clear with what you need. So the right person becomes this blend of you knowing what you need. And then knowing how to satisfy will say that need are meet the need, in a way where equal value is understood and exchanged. So in context and context of business, sometimes it takes the clients to go get abused, before they appreciate your approach and expertise. So if you’re that person that’s come in, and you’re like, I’m just trying to tell them how to do it, they won’t listen to me. They, they, I’m trying to help this company, I see the light, I see the way and they just won’t. It doesn’t work. They just won’t open up to me. Sometimes it takes

Chris Davis 8:01
that client to just learn the hard way, learn through experience, and then they’ll come back and realize, oh, this is why right have we all had that this is why client where they challenge you on every step. And when I say challenge you I don’t want to make them sound like they’re like bad people, they maybe they’ve got a control aspect to them. Maybe they’re used to people operating the way that they deem instead of following other people’s process. It could be a variety of things. But it comes off as a negative experience from the person delivering the service right? Now that person, you could try your hardest and say you know what, hold on. This is why we don’t send emails to the entire list. Now I know you’ve got 200,000 contacts. But if I were to tell you only 2500 are truly opening, and we’re wasting over 30,000 emails on the other that’s really damaging. Just trust me, let’s just send to this segment to build our reputation. And then we could start to expand out. I just don’t understand why can we send to the whole list. I have friends who who have who sin way more emails than me. And they’re just fine. What’s going on? Right? We’ve all had that questioning of process questioning of the operations. And for those people, sometimes it takes that client to go off, get abused, hit hit their head, scrape their knees before they come back and really appreciate the approach. Right? And then the other times, you know, they are aware and they’re mindful while working with you and see the value. I think that’s the that’s the the circumstance that we all hope for. Right? Is that you’re working with someone and they’re giving you your flowers while you’re there. They’re telling Taking time out to appreciate and say, Hey, listen, Chris, before you. We didn’t have any clue what we were going to do. And all of a sudden, we’ve got ultimate clarity. Oh, my goodness, we see things differently now.

Chris Davis 10:15
We don’t know where we will be without you. Right? It’s a great feeling. But But let me add some context to this. I don’t want to I don’t want to just fluff fluff your head up, if you’re that expert, understand the people before you that set the table. Okay, and this is for this. This podcast is for both the digital marketer and the founder, just just follow me here. That founder has hired a freelancer before maybe it didn’t work out. But that Freelancer did get some yardage, right? Maybe they hired another consultant and lost the artists. But they learned, right, so now they hired another one. And they got even more yardage. Though they’re nowhere near the goal line, there has been stuff put in place that you get to build upon to take them further. And if there’s anything that I’ve prided myself in doing in this industry, is it I think it’s easy to talk about what went wrong with a previous agency, a previous consultant, a previous service provider, that’s easy. That’s easy. So I never, and when I say never, if I’ve done it, it’s been unintentional. But I never allow somebody’s bad experience, to be a reason or justification or a means of me puffing myself up. If anything, I’d like to go and see what that previous person did. Because whether it worked or not, I can usually find some gems, I can usually find some stuff that it was like, Oh, they were actually right in this assessment. They just didn’t know how to execute it. But since I know how to execute it, we’ll be able to go further. Right? And it’s a maybe it’s a humility approach, right? I never want to be above gets so high that I’ve arrived, I can’t listen, I can’t learn. Right. And it has served me well. It has served me well. So I know from the founders, you’re just like, oh, I had to get rid of them, I had to get rid of them. I mean, I’ve seen I’ve seen cases where people are using like spreadsheets or other software for CRMs. And my initial knee jerk reaction is Yuck, who is the idiot, that’s my initial internal, I don’t let that come out. And in my community, we speak freely. So I have safe places to go and express my disgust and frustration with such an approach. But then I’ll go into the, I’ll go into the spreadsheet, I’ll go into their software platform, and I’ll see what they were doing. And see all I see what you were trying to execute. You just didn’t have the acumen to get it there. And I’ll take bits and parts from that, because it’s already in the business, those parts are already in the business or have already been exposed to the business. And a lot of times, if I could just tweak that a bit with my acumen, we could get a quick win. And that’s what every business wants on both sides as the consultant you want to be able to get that quick win. And as the founder, you want that quick win given to you. So I like to highlight this because it is an iterative process, you’re going to hire more than one person for the same job, you’re going to need to have multiple consultants, multiple employees, multiple human resources to get the job done. If if instead of looking at it as Oh, they didn’t do everything we expected, see what boxes they check and see what ignorance is they exposed. And that allows you to go into the next hire, it allows you to go into the next engagement, that much more informed. Right? So this is the dichotomy, right? It’s the two sides of finding the right people is I need to know what I what I want. I need to know what I’m looking for. Let me tell you, I’ve got a buddy.

Chris Davis 14:17
Probably the most process driven individual, and I’ve learned a lot just from from how he operates and how stable and structured he is. And when you come into his business, he’s got I’m not talking about SOPs. SOPs are good to like follow Hey, this is what we do. These are like extremely detailed process docs with ultimate clarity and context of why you want something. Now he’s able to get like expert results from the most novice person at times, like he could he could hire somebody on Fiverr and it looks like they were somebody hired for from An agency or something? Now, why does it work, because he’s taken the time to learn exactly what he needs. And he knows how to communicate exactly what it looks like. A good example is when I’m when I’m working with web web designers from our website, I’m extremely cramped talking about colors. I’m recording loom videos and walking through other other websites, like I really liked this, you see how that whitespace is used. I’m trying to have this look and feel, but I have this content don’t necessarily know how to bridge them. Sometimes when they provide a design to me, I don’t I don’t have Photoshop or anything like that. But I could do like a poor man’s markup, pulling up the graphic on my iPad. And in like an art program like procreate or pencil or paper, whatever is kind of thing is paper. And just kind of like mocking it up and saying no, this is this is the direction it first off the service provider. Is it II lated. Because it’s like, Oh, I see because you don’t want them spending their time spinning their wheels, trying to figure out which you are lazily not telling them. So now you’re getting this polished product from a service provider who’s not charging you polished money to do so. And I’m just mentioning one benefit of knowing exactly what you want. Right now the flip side is, you’ve got to be able to know when a consultant is learning on the job. And when they’re leading with acumen. Right, this is part, this is again, this is the combo I’m I’m over here as the founder learning what I need. And then on the other side, I’m trying to identify if they have the chops to meet this need that I’m trying to identify that I need. You see it? It’s a cycle, right? And there is no, this is not a podcast to say, right? Wrong. I’m just trying to help you on navigate, I want to help the consultant stop operating with imposter syndrome. And I want the founder to have more realistic expectations around who you’re hiring, and how far they’re going to be able to take you. I can’t tell you how many instances I have come in. And they’ve got an overworked marketer, marketing manager doing everything, really, they should be a CMO with the amount of responsibilities but they have the title of a marketing manager. And they are a junior level. And I could tell that the founder just threw marketing on them, because they needed to get it off their plate, or they needed to do some level of marketing. Now when I come into those situations, I’m not going to try to show up or one of that marketer. I’m trying to empower them. Because they may be the exact person that company needs. But they need guidance. They need help they need resources. Right. So I’ll come into those situations and see, okay, how far have you been able to take this company? All right, great. Well, not It’s not how far now that I’m here. How far can I take them? Now that I’m added to the team? Even if it’s in a consultant capacity? We’re still a team right? Now that I’m here collectively. Now how far can we go? And I pride myself on getting ultimate yardage. Right? I pride myself on those plays, 30 yards, 50 yards, scoring touchdowns, that’s what I want to do. That’s what I that’s, that’s my metric a lot of times. So when you when you’re thinking about, you know, I need to know my knees just as well as the marketer that I’m hiring needs to have skills. What does that look like when it comes to building a marketing team? And what to expect? Well, well, just let me share with you I did a, I did

Chris Davis 18:42
a training. I’m losing track of all of these communities I do trainings in, I believe it was Dan Martell, SAS Academy, I believe so correct me if I’m wrong, somebody sent me an email and be like, Crystal was actually our art community. But it was how to build an effective marketing team. And in this presentation, roomful of startup founders. In this presentation, I walked through the makeup of a startup team of a marketing team for your average startup, right to stay scrappy, and you know, get things done efficiently. And in that there was a lot of light bulbs going off on the people required. There’s not just a marketer required there other role players that you need to run a highly effective marketing team. However, what I’m talking about on this podcast is how do you realistically build that marketing team? Because starting out with with no marketing, you’re going to need somebody who’s strategic, then you’re going to need somebody who’s good at implementing just those two alone. We haven’t even touched like web stuff, copywriting, graphic design, any of that. We haven’t touched any of that which are all part of a marketing team. By the way. Just the strategy of marketing In the implementation, it’s iterative. It really is because your strat your marketing strategy, strategy will change. When you have nothing is kind of like, hey, let’s do this thing, when you start doing that thing, and it’s working, you start getting bigger vision and bigger eyes, and that marketer may have been able to take you, if it’s 10, as a result, they may have been able to take you from one to four, that does not mean that they’re a bad marketer, or they did something wrong. They’ve just exhausted their level of their capabilities. Right? Now, of course, you can send them to training, you can send them to communities and all of that to expand that, which would, what I would tell you, if you’re working with somebody, and they’re getting yardage, 510 15, stick with them. And if you meet somebody else that can get you the 2030, just add them to the team don’t replace them, right? It’s not a rule of thumb, but it’s what I try to do, right? So now sometimes, what if that consoling them, what if they just do level level four work there, their specialty is taking you from one to four. If we embrace this, look how much better our relationships will be Win Win team building, if you brought on a consultant and consultant said, hey, look, I’m really good at taking you from nothing to an online presence on one channel. Once we’ve done that, then we usually have you bring in somebody else to take it further. That’s like subbing out your running back, that was made for like short yardage and putting in the one that can run further or run fast or is more agile, I don’t know why I have the the American football analogy, but just roll with me through this. I’m sorry, for those of you that don’t watch sports, but it’s, you think you still understand what I’m saying, right? It’s the handoff the relay, hey, I can take you 200 meters. Now here you go, you take the next 200. This is how I believe business should be ran this way. When you prepare for a position in your company, whether it’s a freelance or employee, it’s you can create it to be more plug and play. You’re not creating one position for that one person to do everything. That’s what breaks everything that I’m telling you today. If you’re trying to get one person to do every single thing, and pay them to do every single thing, so you’re really paying one salary for four people. That’s the part that’s not going to work. Okay, that’s not going to work in what I’m what I’m mentioning here. So with that being said, we’re talking about finding the right people how to build that marketing team. What does it look like? It’s okay, it’s sometimes you just you just need a a foot, a meter a yard, right? You just need a win. Hey, right now, I just need somebody that knows how to take my video and make it into reels. So we could just start having a presence. Well, that person does it. And they’ve exhausted their capabilities. Great. Now you’ve got that in place, and it’s exposed new needs, go find the next in the next, what you will, what you will find is this. This is where you end up everybody, you end up in a position where you’re truly ready to bring on an expert, somebody that’s worth investing the 510 25k into, because your business is now at a point where doing so will yield a big result.

Chris Davis 23:36
Right? You’re not going to be able to do that out the gate. Even if you have money. I see founders all the time they raise capital, millions in the bank, and they want to go hire the top expert. You’re only going to get now that expert can take you the whole field, they can take you from zero to a million. But they’re going to need help that usually an expert of that capacity is not going to be building they’re not going to be implementing even myself I contract out to I bring on help that I’ve trained. You know, I’m not the one going in there building because at some point you’re going to be paying a premium for my hourly rate or project base rate. And too I just don’t do it. You’d be better off having access to my brain if your company is in the right position, right. So you use you use these freelancers and marketing assistants and consultants and all of that, to not just figure out what you need but also move your business forward to get to a point where you can truly hire and bring on an expert. I have been put in the fortunate positions I’ll say blessed to be able to work with few startups. This is outside of Active Campaign and LeadPages that most People know me by. But I’m more private startups. And I tell you, it’s been a joy, being able to come in at the capacity that my acumen is at and be able to make an immediate impact, because they’ve moved the business as far as they could working with everyone else. And I come in, build off of what’s in place, and take it to the finish line. That’s, that’s the most comfortable position I’ve been in now. I’ve had startups where I’ve taken them from zero. Inception, worked on the business plan stayed overnight, up late, eatin falling asleep, waking up, where are we at on the business plan, projections and all of that, to raise capital, to start to build the team and start building processes. I’ve done it don’t enjoy it as much. But I’ve done it, right. So I pride myself, again, in being that person that you can bring on when you need the major yardage. That doesn’t make me better than any other consultant that, let’s say has mastered just getting the small yardage or the smaller, the smaller victories, what I want to do is just shaped context around this whole conversation, so that you understand. It’s a process. And if you stop on the founder side, if you stop trying to hire the perfect person, and just focus on the right person, for right now, consultants, if you stop trying to be everything, freelancers, if you stop trying to be everything, you won’t have to worry about the imposter syndrome, understand where your skills can take a business. And that’s what you sell. You do that well enough, you’ll slowly start to add to how far you can take a business and what you can do. But it is a process. And let me just say we’re all practitioners, we’re all growing together. Even doctors have have patients that die on that operating table, you’re not going to get it right every time. And I don’t honestly think people expect that. I think what people expect is if you don’t get it, right, that you own up to it, accountability, and then you ideate provide solutions. Don’t just Oh, wasn’t me, oh, I don’t know what happened on it. And they come up with solutions to work work towards, right. They just want to know that you’re responsible and you’re going to put the level of effort in. Okay. So with that being said, where do you find such talent? Okay, because I do not want anybody to listen to this. And especially if you’re an HR, I don’t I don’t want this to come off. Like oh my gosh, she’s just telling people to just have low standards, go hire people work with them, and just settle for less? No, no, don’t. Again, I’m all about the slow, hire fast fire.

Chris Davis 27:46
Run your DISC assessment. Have them talk to multiple people in your organization. Get your spouse involved, that knows nothing about the company, but can read people really well like No, run your checks and balances. Don’t get me wrong. And you want to get the best, you always want to get the best talent. Okay. All I’m telling you is the best talent isn’t always the person that can throw the the winning pass on the first first go. So where do you find where do you find some of these people? I’m gonna let you know where I found some and where I prepare some to be found. Okay. masterminds, I think I think quiet is kept for those of you who have not joined a mastermind or are not part of one, or have not been part of one. In the past. I guess that’s one of the same joining and being part of one. You’re you’re missing out on a huge opportunity, huge opportunity community just in itself. But masterminds are intentional with bringing the minds together and solving higher level of problems. And what I found in every single mastermind that I’ve been a part of and am aware of, is there become synergistic opportunities within it. You have one person that comes in and says, Hey, I’m really good at ads than another person that comes in says, Hey, I’m really good at content Wait a minute, ads person, I need content, hey, content person, I need ads, right? This happens frequently the synergy and masterminds. And then usually because there’s an investment, you get to rub shoulders with people who have just as much skin in the game as you. So you may need to invest in a mastermind to start to get exposed to a whole new level of synergy and a network, right. A network of resources Second, our programs. My first program I purchased online was Brendon Bouchard, total product blueprint. The second one was Jeff Walker’s Product Launch Formula. It was in a community in Jeff Walker’s Product Launch Formula in his program that I started to really market myself as someone who could do email and automation, right. I didn’t I had a website. I was blown. I was getting no traction was until I joined that program, where when you’re in a program with somebody else, there’s just an inherent level of vulnerability that’s there, you’re out, you’ve already said, Look, I’m in this program to learn something. Right. So everybody is on the same page in terms of learning, in terms of what they want out of the program. So those are good. And actually programming communities go hand in hand. Not always, some people have programs and not communities. But a lot of programs these days have communities. But paid communities is what I’m talking about. No knock against free communities. But again, no skin in the game. Now, it could be anybody. If it’s free, you really have no control over the avatar, right? The target audience, because in order to make money online or in business, you have to target someone. So the fact that somebody paid for something is already your first sign that, okay, there’s a certain type of person in this community. And communities are great because it allows you to nurture build relationships at a safe pace. Some people want to jump right in, Hey, guys, I’m new to the community looking for blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Some people kind of like to ease their way in communities, hugely, hugely effective events, especially now that COVID is subsiding and everything is opening up. Events are great places to meet people in person. There’s nothing like shaking somebody’s hand looking at him in the eye and seeing their authenticity. Right. Events are great referrals. Referrals are great. If you are tapped into the if you’re if they’re coming from the right person. I want to I want to shout out somebody in my community Kuranda Khurana does a really good job with vetting. She does a really good job at vetting people and referring them to my my business. Really good job. The leads that come through her are pretty solid. Along with it’s a few actually, I would say all of the all of my students that have referred somebody, it’s been a solid lead, right? And that’s because I prepare them. They know exactly what they’re who I’m looking for the type of people I work with. So referrals has an asterix, you don’t just ask, Hey, refer somebody that’s kind of like the old school marketing that a lot of service based businesses still do know.

Chris Davis 32:33
Prepare your referees so that they know how to get the how to get the right referrals. And then lastly, certification. Certification is is not it’s not always a given. But it’s a good starting point. I have a certification. Now I’ll say this. On the flip side, I’ve gone through other people’s certification. And let me just say this, I don’t know not no, not against Tina’s foresight. But she’s got a certification for IBM’s. And the website to find an OPM, I’ve had a bad experience with, I just have not been able to go through there. Most of the time, when you reach out to people on their website, they don’t respond and whatever the case may be, however, my OB PMS have been certified through her program. So though I may not be able to use the website, as I anticipated, the certification in itself is still a badge and a check that I say okay, well, at least they know what they’re doing. So this is why I created my certification. So that if you looked for a automation, somebody to do your automation automation service provider, you at least knew a starting point. And I’m not talking about like, Well, okay, I’ll try that. No, these are solid marketers, some of the top marketers in the industry, because one, they’ve been trained by me not fluffing my own self up. But what I’m saying is this. If they’ve been trained by me, that means I’ve taught them I’m a teachable person, which means they taught me which means I go back and teach them. Our community is one of that is that symbiotic growth, it I mean, I can’t explain it, but I’m so glad we have it. We share strategies, we share wins, clients, story struggles, just the other day, we were trying to figure out how to do something in the platform for one of the students clients, right. This is what you need. You need these types of resources to find these type of professionals easier. And then on the flip side, if you’re a digital marketer, you need to be a part of these things you need to go through pay for a program invest it, it’s going to just help you get those companies more yardage quicker. But don’t play the nickel and dime route because you become if both of you are nickel and diamond, you’re only going to be moving like one yard at a time looking at all of these other companies scoring touchdowns, running the full length of the of the field. This is what it takes. It takes a commitment on both sides. So So I hope that was helpful everybody. Again, you’re not looking for the perfect person, you’re just looking for the right person. And that is the person that can take you from wherever you are now to a defined point later. And then you keep looking for the next right person and the next and the next. Sometimes that right person is in your business for years, sometimes it’s months. Sometimes you learn to appreciate them when you have them. Sometimes you have to lose them to learn, Oh, wow. Some, sometimes you have to take on the load that they were carrying, that they may look so easy, in order for you to be like, Ooh, okay, I see. I see why we were paying them what we were paying them, what can we call them back, you got to be prepared that the as inflation increases, so do prices and value and worth. So you may not be able to get them for the same price. So I try to lean on appreciating people why you have them, making sure that you get the most out of them. And growing together. It’s where again, we’re all in this together trying to figure it out. Let’s be a little more patient gracious with one another. But let’s not lower the bar. Let’s not lower the standard. On the Digital Marketer side. Listen, they’ve got too many resources to be around here, quoting ridiculous prices and not having the acumen to back it up. There’s too many resources. My program is one, right. And I know of other programs, I know other tangential services that have programs and community leaders that teach stuff, right? So the digital marketer is not off the hook. On the founder side. Listen, at some point you, you have to stop doing blind money at stuff. Slow down, slow down, look at what’s worked. Look at what’s gone wrong with who you’ve worked with. In the past. Identify the holes if you can’t identify the holes, invest in somebody who can come in and do a gap analysis and identify the hole so you can make your next hire your best hire of the right person,

Chris Davis 36:59
not the perfect person. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of The all systems go podcast. If you enjoyed it, make sure that you’re subscribed at the time of recording the all systems go podcast is free to subscribe to, and it can be found in Apple podcast, Google podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts new episodes are released every Thursday. So make sure you’re subscribed so that you don’t miss out and while you’re at it, please leave us a five star rating and review to show some love but also to help future listeners more easily find the podcast so they can experience the value of goodness as well. We’ve compiled all resources mentioned on the podcast, as well as other resources that are extremely valuable and effective at helping you grow your marketing automation skills quickly. And you can access them all at allsystemsgopodcast.com Thanks again for listening and until next time, I see you online. Automate responsibly my friends